Piracy: A serious issue for consoles [Archive]

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Atsu_Nexus

05-04-2009, 08:08 PM

Ok in the WHY Not Playstation 3? thread it has apparently leaked to this subject. I made a new thread to see what everybody else thinks about the matter.

It is still yet to be said if Champions-Online will have a subscription fee. If it doesn't have a subscription fee, will piracy be an issue on the consoles that developers have taken into consideration?

What methods should they take to avoid it?

If champions-online does have a subscription fee, piracy is not an issue obviously.

With xbox being the most cracked system to date, software and games are easily distributed ((fakely) throughout the internet. Even rockstar has stated, that when they went multiplatform the sony copies sold more then the 360 copies. And with the add-on being exclusivly for the 360 they realized that if they stayed true to the multiplatform in the first place, they would "more likely" (i put that in quotes in case somebody isn't paying attention) would have made more money on the ps3 again as well.

With ps3 (with it only being 1 year younger then the 360), still has yet have any reports of cracked games for it's console. Could it be that developers believe that because it is cheaper and easier to go to the 360, along with the more common format of it being hd-dvd, that more copies are likely to be sold. Could be true for all the honest 360 owners out there, but still there are just as many others who have the cracked system.

SOOOOOOO it brings me back to the major topic. Please everybody share opponions, (and mos' def. if you have it, share links, resources, graphs, and citations) on the issue. of Piracy being an issue on the basis that if Cryptic decides to make no subscription fee to the game (f2p = free to play), assuming that it is f2p, would they have to worry about losing money? Would piracy be an issue for them?

chaoss

05-04-2009, 08:12 PM

Lance_Maddison

05-04-2009, 08:21 PM

I think it'll be about as much of an issue for Champions Online as it is for any other Xbox 360 release. It's not something I'm terribly concerned about. :)

Frankly, I'm not sure how much of a problem piracy is for the Xbox 360 as opposed to, say, the PC or the PSP. The former is crazy easy to pirate for, and the latter is, well, http://kotaku.com/5221988/sony-psp-piracy-levels-are-sickening

I dunno, it seems that if the Xbox 360 were fraught with piracy, sales figures like the following for GTA IV wouldn't be feasible:

During the first five days of availability, the title sold 1.85 million units on the Xbox 360 and 1 million on the PlayStation 3 in the United States, according to the NPD Group;[134] in the United Kingdom the Xbox 360 version sold 514,000 copies and the PlayStation 3 version sold 413,000, according to Chart-Track.[131][135] The Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 versions of Grand Theft Auto IV are the fifth and eighth best-selling games of 2008 in the United States respectively.

The Xbox 360 version sold in excess of 3.29 million, while the PlayStation 3 version sold in excess of 1.89 million for a combined 5.18 million copies in 2008 in the region.[136] GameStop and EB Games reported that the game led in sales the first week after its release, noting that its stores in Puerto Rico led all districts in pre-release reservations and sales 48 hours after its release.[137]

djshef

05-04-2009, 08:26 PM

Atsu_Nexus

05-04-2009, 08:33 PM

Actually if you have pirates stuff on your xbox or hacked it in anyway if you are on live even with silver your xbox is banned and will not work for any online game so I don't know what your saying. 2nd it will be p2p. 3 rd gta sold better on ps3 cause eeryone plays halo and gears on xbox. Where ps3 had nothing good at the time. 4 th no matter what the game will be monitored so hackig cheating pirating will be found out so it unlikly

no it's not p2p and it's not mentioned if it's f2p either. that has not been said. Whenever a gta game comes out period, everybody picks it up. So don't base it on ur opionon. 3rd average ratings for 360 games (including your buggy halo and gears of war) are below 8. and just because hacking and whatever is being monitored, don't think it's going to stop them.

And about the account bans. The hacked games for the 360 aren't downloaded to it. It's burnt on a hd-dvd. you can buy those in wal-mart. The software is distributed through some website (don't ask me for it, because i don't do it, nor do i ask) So detecting the pirated software is not as easy as them going online, microsoft scans their console data daily, and they're caught. it doesn't work like that, because if it did, we wouldn't be talkin about it.

Atsu_Nexus

05-04-2009, 08:34 PM

Atsu_Nexus

05-04-2009, 08:37 PM

Easy answer:

You can pirate software, but not an account with Cryptic.

You can have as many copies of a single game as you want, but your account is registered with your game's serial key. You are purchasing the serial key, not the software (technically). You can copy anyone's WoW data and play off of it, but without a registered account, you can't access the servers, whether you pay for the account or not.

You could potentially make a private server, I suppose.

The account key i see is very true to prevent piraters from gaining access. but i do have to ask about this.

You think somebody will be smart enough to make a "Serial Key Generator" for it? how do you think they can avoid that? wouldn't it have to be activated in store or something sort of like prepaid cards?

djshef

05-04-2009, 08:40 PM

The account key i see is very true to prevent piraters from gaining access. but i do have to ask about this.

You think somebody will be smart enough to make a "Serial Key Generator" for it? how do you think they can avoid that? wouldn't it have to be activated in store or something sort of like prepaid cards?

Key Generators aren't hard to make, you can brute force a serial in a days time and it handles the installation process, but any company side-validation shoots them down for the most part.

Atsu_Nexus

05-04-2009, 08:42 PM

Key Generators generally handle the installation process, but any company side-validation shoots them down for the most part.

ok that explains that. you think cryptic will have that for consoles?

djshef

05-04-2009, 08:46 PM

ok that explains that. you think cryptic will have that for consoles?

Doesn't really matter what platform its on, the key is validated during account registration, not by the game software.

Nightmare

05-04-2009, 08:47 PM

no it's not p2p and it's not mentioned if it's f2p either. that has not been said. Whenever a gta game comes out period, everybody picks it up. So don't base it on ur opionon. 3rd average ratings for 360 games (including your buggy halo and gears of war) are below 8. and just because hacking and whatever is being monitored, don't think it's going to stop them.

And about the account bans. The hacked games for the 360 aren't downloaded to it. It's burnt on a hd-dvd. you can buy those in wal-mart. The software is distributed through some website (don't ask me for it, because i don't do it, nor do i ask) So detecting the pirated software is not as easy as them going online, microsoft scans their console data daily, and they're caught. it doesn't work like that, because if it did, we wouldn't be talkin about it.

Ummmm what part of competatively priced do you not get? It has been stated it will be subscription based. Do some damn research. It is so obvious you are one of those it's easier to just ask questions and spout off than to actually read anything.

Lastly, I am on my phone so no I won't provide a link right now. Also, all of you people need to grow up and realize putting things off on other people is lazy and immature and leads to people who actually read and know things to discounting things you say.

Even a free to play game could easily have a Serial Code you pay for so only legit copies could register and play.....

Atsu_Nexus

05-04-2009, 08:58 PM

Ummmm what part of competatively priced do you not get? It has been stated it will be subscription based. Do some damn research. It is so obvious you are one of those it's easier to just ask questions and spout off than to actually read anything.

Lastly, I am on my phone so no I won't provide a link right now. Also, all of you people need to grow up and realize putting things off on other people is lazy and immature and leads to people who actually read and know things to discounting things you say.

Even a free to play game could easily have a Serial Code you pay for so only legit copies could register and play.....

Link and quote, located at the bottom of the page.

www.champions-online.com/faq

Q: Will a monthly fee be required to play?
A:We have not yet announced the pricing structure for the game.

So foul-mouth nightmare with anger issues, unless you give me a link on this officail site, or a video interview, or a creditable interview source (for you, if it's in game informer or any other credible magazine, list the page and the paragraph), video interview, list the time where it's mentioned (from a developer), if not, your just one of those people you were just talkin about you hate.

iconocast

05-04-2009, 09:19 PM

Atsu_Nexus

05-04-2009, 09:26 PM

alrity. ima just wait for the game. subscription or no subscription fee, im going to be playing it regardless. hacks or no hacks im going to have it in my hands.

Syndica

05-04-2009, 09:47 PM

I'm not worried about the game being pirated. It's a "triple A" title being made by an experienced mmo developer. It will most likely be pay to play. I would be more worried about account hacks, gold farmers, and cheaters.

Unless there are pirates in game. :eek:

Professor_Ape

05-04-2009, 09:55 PM

i goes without a doubt there will be a sub form xbox players. thats is what is holdeing up the xbox realease imo, microtard and cryptic are haveing diffcultys working our a sub plan that suits both companys.

and if there is a sub the matter of piracy is irrelevant, as u cant play witout a sub annyways.

You could always pirate the game, but of course you'd still need the access key on the game-disk as well as a player account to play Champions. It's not like The Witcher, which you can just patch to play.

The thing I'm worried about with Cryptic and Microsoft is whether or not you will have to subscribe to xbox live AND the subscription for the game. Of course you'd have to pay the subscription for Champions, but Microsoft might decide to be d-bags and make you pay their fee as well.

Atsu_Nexus

05-04-2009, 10:03 PM

There was a game for xbox called phantasy star online. it had a monthly subscription fee. yes you had to pay for both. so your worries are over. get ur wallet ready to pay 2 money hording companies.

And that to me is another concern mention: hacking accounts, and gold famers. both are the scourge of mmos. hopefully cryptic understands and will cut the cost on the 360, making pc owners mad, but hopefully you pc owners will understand why they did it.

A good idea for them to do, is to add in the number security system that maple story added in to their accounts. So even if your account did get hacked, they still needed the 4 digit code to access your characters.

Xyon

05-04-2009, 10:40 PM

I hate to be negative, but I believe xbox players will have to pay both subscriptions and full price for the game, and seeing that most xbox games cost more than their PC counterparts (Xbox = 60, PC is usually 50), our Xbox friends may have to shell out extra dough to play on the consoles.

And back to the piracy debate, the requirement of a cd key to create an account and a subscription to keep playing will make pirating useless. Gold sellers and hackers are a problem, but both can easily be ignored/avoided by a smart user. PROTIP: get firefox, get noscript.

iconocast

05-04-2009, 10:47 PM

You could always pirate the game, but of course you'd still need the access key on the game-disk as well as a player account to play Champions. It's not like The Witcher, which you can just patch to play.

The thing I'm worried about with Cryptic and Microsoft is whether or not you will have to subscribe to xbox live AND the subscription for the game. Of course you'd have to pay the subscription for Champions, but Microsoft might decide to be d-bags and make you pay their fee as well.

yeh im guessing thats where the problems lies. they dont want ppl to pay for xbox live and a cryptic sub fee and miicrotard dont want to be left out of the monney loop.

DrSpaceman

05-04-2009, 11:26 PM

I can't believe this thread even exists, but I'll go ahead and bite in the name of education.

1. Cryptic has done this dance before. This isn't their first MMO, and chances are, probably not their last.

2. One only has to look at their previous history (City of Heroes/Villains) to get an idea of what their standard business practice is.

3. CoX ALSO HAD INDUSTRY STANDARD SUBSCRIPTION FEES.

4. Both of the existing MMORPG's on the Xbox360 (Phantasy Star Universe, and Final Fantasy XI), only require Xbox Live SILVER accounts to play. It's not necessary to have a gold subscription WHATSOEVER in order to play these two games. The reason why? They do NOT utilize Microsoft's servers for their game play. Sega's servers (Phantasy Star Universe), and Sony's server (Final Fantasy XI), respectively. Yes, Final Fantasy XI DOES use Sony's servers to run their game. It only takes about 5 minutes to look that up.

5. Final Fantasy XI has serial keys to create accounts, whereas with Phantasy Star Universe, users just go and make an account and play. The piracy check for Phantasy Star Universe is having the legitimate disc in the drive whilst you play (for the 360 and PS2 versions, this does not apply to the PC version. I know, because I own all three versions of the game).

Now, with the above information, what can we determine?

1. Cryptic will MORE THAN LIKELY hold themselves to the industry standard in subscription fees (guess anywhere between 9.95 to 14.95 a month). They are a business, and businesses DO need to make money to survive, no matter HOW FUN their game may be.

2. Continuing on the line of the monthly fee, Free to play and microtransactions have not FULLY been integrated into the mainstream yet, but efforts have been made (Guild Wars, etc) as far as ultra high profile titles go.

3. Considering that the other 2 mmo's available on the 360 DO NOT REQUIRE Xbox Live Gold, it's FAIRLY safe, but not 100% certain, to assume that Champions ALSO will not require you have to Gold service.

4. Even with pirated copies of the game client for the 360, users would STILL have to have a valid ACCOUNT KEY. Most mmo's do not have any sort of installation serial code, instead using account activation just to PLAY the game. Hell, usually within the first year of any game's launch, the client (you know, the fun game that came on the disc) is made available as a free download from the developer on PC, typically during a trial.

And finally, most importantly:

5. Developers do NOT exist in some kind of magical black hole and video games pop out of the black hole every couple of years. Don't you think THEY KNOW about all this piracy tom foolery that goes on? Of course they do. They know that people hack consoles. Someone in those offices no doubt gets PAID to know what's going on in those fronts, who the movers and shakers are, and how to AVOID getting caught up in that net. You know, that's the reason that piracy tricks get shut down and hackers have to come up with new methods to get around it.

TL;DR VERSION:

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. The game will more than likely have the regular, standard warfare when it comes to pricing, you're going to have to pay 10 bucks more for the game client if you pick up the console version (WHENEVER that comes around), and they're all going to come with ACCOUNT ACTIVATION keys as their piracy check.

And if none of that is true and they pull some crazy, new aged SUPER AWESOME METHOD OF DISTRIBUTING, without paying $15 bucks a month? Then celebrate!

As for everything above, it all can be looked up and verified as true and accurate with a couple of seconds of the GOOGLE.

RHINOCEROS MOUNTAIN

05-04-2009, 11:38 PM

Subscription fee is most likely and as I've seen in modern CD games that require a CD key, you cannot duplicate the key as only one can be used to create an account and no other can make another with same key.

Atsu_Nexus

05-05-2009, 12:15 AM

obviously this got flames all over it. anybody vote to close?

btw about the phantasy star *online* not universe. they still had subscription fees you had to pay. but yea, u agreed with my point there.

ne wayz what have we all learned?

Piracy is not the issue here.

ok everybody, go grab a glass of water, take five, and find a new thread (**** everything i start becomes contraversial)

DrSpaceman

05-05-2009, 12:32 AM

Robota

05-05-2009, 01:10 AM

No piracy is not an issue.

You need a copy of or an emulator for the server side software to be able to pirate an MMO. This is obscenely difficult generally so its unlikely we'll see any illegal CO servers.

Atsu_Nexus

05-05-2009, 01:34 AM

Both Phantasy Star Online AND Phantasy Star Universe had subscription fees. ;)

I kno, i owned them both. you're not the only gamer here

In-Betweener

05-05-2009, 02:35 AM

honestly it seems like you're doing more flaming than anyone else in this thread. And I don't think that piracy of the game itself is an issue, as it isn't with any MMO as was stated for reasons including server emulators and the requirement of a valid account to play. The closest thing you'll get is account hacking. That would be the only true way to "pirate" a MMO. It has been stated that CO will be comparatively priced with other MMO's. I'm not digging through all of the threads to find the one place that the one dev said this, just like you're not. It has also been stated that a silver Live account will only be required, not a Gold account. And no, I don't believe that the 360 players should pay less simply because of a Gold Account before that question comes up again.

I honestly don't see the need/reason for this thread but that's the short answer to most of the asked questions throughout the thread.

Robota

05-05-2009, 02:43 AM

For a pirate MMO server to pop up you need server side software like I said. The game world and such is all contained there along with enemy data, etc. You literally just have a graphics engine & graphics data, control system and interpreter for the data the server sends at you. Thats all the client is.

So you have to either emulate the server software or hack a copy of it. Both are difficult.
The Ragnarok Online server emulator software is only possible because in RO's case it wasn't hard and there was a hacked version of the server software available to act as a comparison at first so they could learn what they needed to.

Then you have to modify the client to stop it connecting to the official servers and possibly patch it to a certain version or add new files depending on whether they added anything to this private server.

For older games this isn't tooo hard. But for a game like CO? Its just too difficult. I mean look at the City of Heroes/Villains server emulator. They've been working on it for years with no sign of progress.

Hamsamwich

05-05-2009, 03:48 AM

Nightmare

05-05-2009, 04:52 AM

Link and quote, located at the bottom of the page.

www.champions-online.com/faq

Q: Will a monthly fee be required to play?
A:We have not yet announced the pricing structure for the game.

So foul-mouth nightmare with anger issues, unless you give me a link on this officail site, or a video interview, or a creditable interview source (for you, if it's in game informer or any other credible magazine, list the page and the paragraph), video interview, list the time where it's mentioned (from a developer), if not, your just one of those people you were just talkin about you hate.

First off please point out the asterisks in my post. Till then STFU about me being foul mouthed mmkay? ***** please, learn to flame if you are going to try that with me.

Now, that said. I would have said there was a dev post somewhere where they said the industry standard competitive pricing etc. Maybe I read the above quote and misremembered it. I still stand by what I said. This is a serious MMO, not some lame piece of crap whipped out this month with another one due in a couple of months.

Also, what company made up of non-idiots is going to spend this kind of money and then do the equivalent of hosting it on Piratebay.org?

Nightmare

05-05-2009, 04:55 AM

i just start laughing when peopel br ing up the lower cost for xbox sub.. just makes me laugh like an insane person about to kill ANOTHER victem, wait wait wait, i can't rememberw hich is actually happening now

Ham you just ain't right ya know that? You can't go around talking about our hobbies online. I mean your hobbies.....not mine.

Solarfox

05-05-2009, 07:56 AM

Q: Will a monthly fee be required to play?
A:We have not yet announced the pricing structure for the game.

That means nothing really. It's just their way of covering their rear for now, this game will cost $15 a month to play like every other major MMO out there.

It was also said by the Cryptic I believe, that you will need the sliver XBox subscription which is free to play on the 360 (assuming it ever comes out.)

Piracy will not be an issue for CO for the same reasons it's not an issue for WoW, CoH, AoC, WAR, LOTRO, ect...

Vinja

05-05-2009, 07:58 AM

dont you need to install some sort of special chip into your xbox to play pirated games? and i think thats what causes your xbox live account to get banned, this chip itself. so i dont think cryptic has to worry about an ONLINE game not being played ONLINE.

and we all know champions WILL have a subscription fee, dont try to act like it wont. next thing you know well get a bunch of newbies in here clogging the boards with "z0mg i herd champs onlinez wont have teh subscrption fee, that tru?!?!?!?!?"

TheTastyBurger

05-05-2009, 08:17 AM

and we all know champions WILL have a subscription fee, dont try to act like it wont. next thing you know well get a bunch of newbies in here clogging the boards with "z0mg i herd champs onlinez wont have teh subscrption fee, that tru?!?!?!?!?"

I agree, I can't possibly see this game being free to play. I don't know who started that idea.

hypothetically, if it was a decision between dealing with piracy or charging customers, I can tell you which they would choose. But like I said, get the idea out of your head that it might be fee to play. I would prefer they charge us a free to keep away piracy noobs.

Solarfox

05-05-2009, 08:59 AM

I don't know who started that idea.

The OP did because according to the FAQ, Cryptic hasn't decided what the pricing structure will be. Which in theory could mean it's a F2P game with micro payments or some sort of premium content...

But then again in theory pigs might fly if you strapped rocket boosters to their back...

Professor_Ape

05-05-2009, 04:38 PM

But then again in theory pigs might fly if you strapped rocket boosters to their back...

Don't test me... I'll do it!!!! :)

DrSpaceman

05-05-2009, 05:32 PM

you're not the only gamer here

NO WAY ARE YOU FER SRS?!

There's other out there LIKE ME that play the VIDYA GAMEZ?! :eek:

I don't know what to say. I'm flabbergasted at the even mere THOUGHT of this. Finally. I'm not alone in the universe anymore.

/sniffle

djshef

05-05-2009, 06:13 PM

NO WAY ARE YOU FER SRS?!

There's other out there LIKE ME that play the VIDYA GAMEZ?! :eek:

I don't know what to say. I'm flabbergasted at the even mere THOUGHT of this. Finally. I'm not alone in the universe anymore.

/sniffle

JOO PLAY GAEMZ 2? WANNA TRADE POKEYMANZ?

DrSpaceman

05-05-2009, 07:22 PM

JOO PLAY GAEMZ 2? WANNA TRADE POKEYMANZ?

K, I gif u mai mudkipz fer ur slOwpoke, dat coo?

Snoop221

05-05-2009, 07:28 PM

Its not like they would get a free subscription when they pirate lol. Plus they would get banned so really who would Pirate any game at all and risk getting their 360 banned from Xbox Live

Atsu_Nexus

05-05-2009, 07:31 PM

NO WAY ARE YOU FER SRS?!

Finally. I'm not alone in the universe anymore.

/sniffle

No, your still very alone. it's ok. your buddy list will keep you company