coh going rogue lol

[grizznitch]

so it looks like cox is on its last leg. the one thing they allways said they would never do they are doing.
heres the email i got-

ps- tldr For the first time, Hero characters can become Villains and vice versa, enabling Heroes to cross over to the Rogue Isles™ and Villains to experience Paragon City™.


Paragon Studios™ is proud to officially announce the next City of Heroes® expansion, City of Heroes Going Rogue™! This will be the first major expansion for the City of Heroes franchise since the launch of City of Villains® in 2005.

Praetoria, a utopian mirror to our own world, hides a dark secret. Exploring this mysterious alternate earth, the heroes and villains of this world feel an uneasiness of doubt creep over them. Loyalties are questioned. Choices are made. Lines are drawn. As they search for the truth behind Emperor Cole and his Praetorian guard, brutal foes and fierce allies emerge, turning this once blissful paradise into a battle ground.

City of Heroes Going Rogue officially opens the "mirror universe" of Praetoria and an all-new alignment system that explores the shades of gray that lie between Heroes and Villains. For the first time, Hero characters can become Villains and vice versa, enabling Heroes to cross over to the Rogue Isles™ and Villains to experience Paragon City™.

[badbal]

interesting :D - and about time ;) - Hope they have more than a few zones and an alignment bar up their sleeves though.

[King_Aries]

i really wanted that when i was playing but the way the game is now i wont spend a buck on it :(

[Downfall]

Well. This sounds pretty cool, but by the time it gets released, I'll be on CO. (I hope.)

[AkumaMishima]

interesting :D - and about time ;) - Hope they have more than a few zones and an alignment bar up their sleeves though.

judging by the response given by the fanbois -er forum goers of coh, they don't need to. Side swapping and an indeterminate number of new zones appears to be all they need to keep the fanbois appeased (for a paid expansion no less).

Frankly, I had held a small glimmer of hope for a few powerset corrections and perhaps the addition of pistols for ranged sets but i15's pitiful display, even more costume packs, and now the introduction of paid issues has frankly stamped this hope out entirely.

I apologize for the dramatics, but this is disappointing.

If, after five years, a company repays you with paid expansions that virtually replace the old-stand-by free issues, they are not doing you a favor. By all means, please do not show them gratitude.

[L12]

Well. This sounds pretty cool, but by the time it gets released, I'll be on CO. (I hope.)

I figure at the very least, we'll be in Open Beta.

[grizznitch]

agreed a MM hero woulda been cool

[All-Maker]

Can you switch back and forth at your leisure? Probably not, but I'd like the idea.

[Demitr1]

It seems like they were saving this feature for when Champions online was going to be released...

[badbal]

sounds like a regular issue i agree.
But hopefully there will be more... ;)
MORE POWERsets or classes imo.

[Zeldias]

How is this going to work with the way their archetypes are? Do you change to the archetype most like yours, ie Tankers become Brutes? If that's the case, then what is a Mastermind gonna become?

Sounds awkward.

[badbal]

Im sure the switch will be seemless. No AT switching. I bet the Heroes and Villians have always been interchangable. They are just tacking on an Alignment bar to give it some "flavor" ;) lol :D

[Downfall]

Im sure the switch will be seemless. No AT switching. I bet the Heroes and Villians have always been interchangable. They are just tacking on an Alignment bar to give it some "flavor" ;) lol :D

I've thought that too.

I am by no means a developer at all, but it seems like it wouldn't be too hard to make the switch. I mean all the ATs are in place already, they just need to grant Paragon access to villains and Rogue Isle access to heroes.

But in reality, it might have been very difficult. I dunno lol.

[poptart_fairy]

so it looks like cox is on its last leg. the one thing they allways said they would never do they are doing.

You mean the development team that CO has said would 'never' do...

Do people really have such short memories, or is the "POSITRON = ANTICHRIST" nonsense so deeply ingrained?

[Tank]

well it's about time

[ZmobieMrh]

Wonder what that'd do for patron pool powers, if you'd be able to go hero and get the vastly superior APPs instead

[Tank]

next up, power customization, another long requested feature bogged down by that classic response from positron and back alley brawler "it's too much work"

[Samhain]

I guess I'm the only one who hates that idea. Glad I've stopped playing now.

[Downfall]

I guess I'm the only one who hates that idea. Glad I've stopped playing now.

I don't necessarily "hate" this feature, but I think it's a pretty lousy one.

I mean, think about it. I can play the same content as before, just with my villain in Paragon now. (This is based off what I've read, they might add more) But thanks to architect, all people do now is run AE farms, so it wouldn't matter anyways.

Remember that one event where villains could team with heroes in Pocket D? (I think it was valentine's day or something) I imagine it will be that... And that's all. It wasn't very exciting then, and it's not right now. If they added some new content (That parallel universe sounds interesting) then it might not be too bad. It was just a little late in their release date.

[Tank]

as good as CoH/V was for me, i won't be going back, the archetypes are still too limited for me.

[ZmobieMrh]

Remember that one event where villains could team with heroes in Pocket D? (I think it was valentine's day or something) I imagine it will be that... And that's all. It wasn't very exciting then, and it's not right now.

It wasn't really all that fair either, there was no reason to bring many of the villains. Stalkers had no place, neither did corruptors or dominators. The only ones ever wanted for teams were masterminds and brutes (the new soldiers of arachnos would probably be taken too).

[Samhain]

Well, y'know if they didn't completely screw the pooch on PvP then I MIGHT have stuck around and checked this out. The only thing that will get me back on CoH is if I absolutely hate Champions, and I'm pretty sure that won't happen.

[Rabenschwinge]

That's pretty cool, actually. Lift the separation between CoH and CoV a little. I always had the oppinion to keep those two so strongly separated was a mistake, and the Rikti War Zone and Ouroboros couldn't fix that.

Most of my characters are pretty firm on the side they stand. However, my Controller Whitegold as well the night widow Media Noctis (lat. Midnight), the stalker Soulthief and the necromancer (zombies mastermind) Remembrance might be willing to turn sides. :) If the good guys can handle the black magic and slightly twisted view on life and death of those.

My primary characters, the blaster Marksmaid, the scrapper Sylvery, the corruptor NIgra Mortis (lat. "the black [Woman] of Death", or simply "Black Death" as a female form), the defender Dreamveil, and the Dominator Sharyen would never turn sides.

[Signal]

Do people really have such short memories, or is the "POSITRON = ANTICHRIST" nonsense so deeply ingrained?

Both. You know, it looks to me like Cryptic is carrying a curse: Any game they have worked on will have the lead designer branded as a pariah. First Jack got raked through the coals, and people sung praises when Cryptic sold CoH off and he left. They put Matt (Positron) Miller up on a pedestal... only to knock him right off again and put him in the same "EVIL" category as Jack. I see people already doing it to Bill Roper and they haven't even played CO yet (they just go by Hellgate: London and completely ignore the rest of his track record). I hope Bill is thoroughly ready to p!$$ off a segment of his subscriber base NO MATTER WHAT HE DOES... EVEN IF IT'S NOTHING AT ALL!

[Rabenschwinge]

Well, y'know if they didn't completely screw the pooch on PvP then I MIGHT have stuck around and checked this out. The only thing that will get me back on CoH is if I absolutely hate Champions, and I'm pretty sure that won't happen.

I guess every game is condemned to make player characters ever more powerful. And City of Heroes is not one of the really big games that can hope to run forever. Thus, I think it belongs to the life cycle of such games to screw things up eventually.

[ZmobieMrh]

Well, y'know if they didn't completely screw the pooch on PvP then I MIGHT have stuck around and checked this out. The only thing that will get me back on CoH is if I absolutely hate Champions, and I'm pretty sure that won't happen.

Hey, that brings up a good point, this actually might make pvp fun again.

I could make my stalker a hero and not have to fear 10 layers of stealth detection and scrappers/blasters seeing me from across the map.

[Nerfherder]

Seem to me like they really feel the threat of CO, and with Positron's PR disaster where he lashed out on farming with a "you'll play my game like I want you to or I'll BAN j00!" it's certainly needed.

This expansion will correct a flaw that was apparent from the launch of CoV, namely that you were playing the exact same game, doing the exact same things only in 2 separate worlds. Rescue missions were turned into kidnaps by just replacing a word, at the end the npc's still played the grateful emote in some kidnaps.

Some will argue that the AT's were all new and fantastic, but the only new AT to be found was the mastermind. The others were only reworked heroes, where the corruptor was pieces of defender and blaster, brute was a cross between tank and scrapper etc. Dominators had some interesting new powersets in plant control, mental manipulation etc, but a new powerset doesn't really warrant a paid expansion as willpower, dual blades and shields are proof of.

The paid expansion coming now don't correct the things about the game that are it's true weaknesses tho, which are the many, many limitations. You still run the same three missions where you enter an instance, beat the boss and take off with the loot/recover a stolen item, kidnap/rescue some hapless dolt or rob/protect a bank.

City of has given me countless of hours of fun. Most of my 50's are around 250-400hrs old when hitting 50, and I have about 10 or so of them, and I have deleted numerous toons in their late 30's to early 40's, so I'm sure I've spent at least 5000hrs total playing. Nowadays tho, I find myself logged in way less, perhaps 5-10 hours/week and I also find that I have a bad taste in my mouth coming from the dev teams "play the way we tell you!" attitude, the horrible fanbois called the forum cartel that oppose every change and improvement and also are the ones always in the first wave of closed beta to make sure things stay pretty much the same as always.

This paid expansion was long overdue, but I think that for me it's probably too late already. If CO holds up, me and my 3 accounts will migrate to here.

[Samhain]

Hey, that brings up a good point, this actually might make pvp fun again.

I could make my stalker a hero and not have to fear 10 layers of stealth detection and scrappers/blasters seeing me from across the map.

That wont change the fact that the I13 pvp changes are awful. The zones are all dead on the servers I played on.

[Amosov]

So they're switching sides using Praetorian Earth: CGI Video (http://www.cityofheroes.com/goingrogue/)

[blakerefuge]

I'm really excited for this. CoH is giving me more and more reasons to stay subscribed, even after CO is out. Paying $30 a month might be in my future.

The fact that this is a paid expansion is what excites me the most. I'm thinking there will be at least one new archetype, many new costume pieces, and many new zones. The trailer seems to hint at power customization as well. I'll have to see what this expansion will actually contain before I make my final judgment. I'll also have to see how much I like CO as well.

No matter what happens, it's a wonderful time to be a fan of superhero MMOs. :D

[Amosov]

I'm really excited for this. CoH is giving me more and more reasons to stay subscribed, even after CO is out. Paying $30 a month might be in my future.

The fact that this is a paid expansion is what excites me the most. I'm thinking there will be at least one new archetype, many new costume pieces, and many new zones. The trailer seems to hint at power customization as well. I'll have to see what this expansion will actually contain before I make my final judgment. I'll also have to see how much I like CO as well.

No matter what happens, it's a wonderful time to be a fan of superhero MMOs. :D

I wonder if they'll ever put in the Incarnate Epic AT :D

[blakerefuge]

I wonder if they'll ever put in the Incarnate Epic AT :D

Who knows? Maybe it'll contain enough content to go from level 1-50 as an anti-hero.

The way I see it, when CO launches, CoH will have many, many features that CO will lack, especially once this expansion is released. It also has the added benefit of being 5 years old, meaning it doesn't really have to prove itself like CO does. However, if CO is a success, then over time it will doubtlessly start to add most of the features present in CoH, becoming the overall better game. In the meantime, it seems like the best course of action is to simply play both, and ignore DCUO. ;)

[Nerfherder]

So they're switching sides using Praetorian Earth: CGI Video (http://www.cityofheroes.com/goingrogue/)

...and most likely you'll be going to praetorian earth through a portal and become altered as long as you're there, but unable to team with your buddies in the "regular" world. I sure hope that's not the case tho.

[blakerefuge]

...and most likely you'll be going to praetorian earth through a portal and become altered as long as you're there, but unable to team with your buddies in the "regular" world. I sure hope that's not the case tho.

I believed its been confirmed that heroes will be able to play in the Rogue Isles, and villains in Paragon City. Praetorian Earth sounds like a standalone zone.

[Demitr1]

Trailer has statesman all evil'ed out so to speak...Kinda makes me sad.

[Prodiguy]

What is WITH people?

I have a question- Did either Everquest shut down? Did WoW shut down? Did Guild Wars shut down?

They're all fantasy MMOs, aren't they?

City of Heroes/Villains is a super hero MMO. Champions online is a super hero MMO. DC Universe Online is a super hero MMO. You're assuming here that there can only be one on the market at a time here.

CoX is COMPETING. They're putting their best foot forward now because competition is arriving, just like the fantasy MMOs did when each and every new one came out.

Champions Online won't 'kill' CoX, just like SW:TOR has a CHANCE of killing SWG, not a certainty. City of Heroes/Villains has an actual loyal player-base though, which is the difference there. It has thousands of active subscriptions, and with all the new features coming around because of Champions Online, the two will be the main competitors. DCUO might put up a fight, but even if it doesn't gain the majority, they'll still be around.

Champions Online will never kill CoX.

If it's debatable that TOR will kill Star Wars Galaxies, which has been dying since it launched, what makes you think CO will kill a fully living, successful game?

[Tank]

a game that is run by a company that will kill it without a second thought if they see their profit margin in it slipping by any significant amount.

[Samhain]

you know they did mention incarnates a long time ago. I'd be interested in seeing how they handled that.

[Nerfherder]

No one ever said CO would kill CoX...

[Griffyjr.]

I would have loved this like 5 issues ago, but hey oh well to bad i wont be playing cox anymore :(

cause this sounds awesome

[Prodiguy]

People are talking like them doing this is out of desperation.

It's not.

[Demitr1]

The only reason I said that is because it was talked about for a long time but never implemented....UNTIL NOW!

[Nerfherder]

People are talking like them doing this is out of desperation.

It's not.

Unless you're part of Paragon Studios or NC Soft, you can't really know, can you?


The "Oops, info leaked early" statement from EMPulse on the coh boards kinda states that they don't actually have anything to show yet, but need to feed their fans something to keep them interested atm.

[Prodiguy]

Unless you're part of Paragon Studios or NC Soft, you can't really know, can you?


The "Oops, info leaked early" statement from EMPulse on the coh boards kinda states that they don't actually have anything to show yet, but need to feed their fans something to keep them interested atm.

According to some interviews people posted in the main topic about it on the CoX forums, this thing's been in development for quite a while now.

[Samhain]

Unless you're part of Paragon Studios or NC Soft, you can't really know, can you?


The "Oops, info leaked early" statement from EMPulse on the coh boards kinda states that they don't actually have anything to show yet, but need to feed their fans something to keep them interested atm.

Theres a very well made trailer and a good starting point for a website. I'd say thats something. Still no in game media though.

[Nerfherder]

Theres a very well made trailer and a good starting point for a website. I'd say thats something.

Absolutely, but creating a short animation and a website is very different than developing new zones, coding side switching etc.

If you grab a couple of animators and tell them to work long hours, you could do that animation in 2 weeks including rendering.

[Nerfherder]

Just saying that leaking the info is a way to get ppl to stay interested even while the expansion might be further away than you think.

[blakerefuge]

Just saying that leaking the info is a way to get ppl to stay interested even while the expansion might be further away than you think.

Sure, it'd keep their interest in the very short term, but in the long term it would turn their subscribers against them. They'll have stuff to show soon enough.

[Nerfherder]

Sure, it'd keep their interest in the very short term, but in the long term it would turn their subscribers against them. They'll have stuff to show soon enough.

You mean like with Mission Architect that got post-poned like what, 6 months?

[blakerefuge]

You mean like with Mission Architect that got post-poned like what, 6 months?

That was because the devs didn't anticipate how much the players would expect out of such a feature. It originally wasn't going to contain things like custom bosses/mobs. It was delayed to add these features. Besides, to ease the waiting time, they split it into two issues, remember?

The only thing to do here is wait and see what the devs formally announce. Once the feature set is announced, the debate on how soon it will come out can begin.

[Kinestron]

So I get to play characters that I've played for years now playing content I've played for years but just with heroes/villains. I don't see the appeal except for role-players. I'm not a role-player. The rehashing of content continues. This expansion will need to offer a lot more(*cough, graphics upgrade, *cough) than this to open my wallet or draw my eyes away from the more shiny product that is Champions.

Seriously, people are excited for this? You are going to get excited now that you can play all the SAME content all over again and not even with a new powerset or AT????

No thanks. I'd rather pay/play content that is truly NEW and not the same content over and over with a small twist yet you somehow convince players it is new. I can't wait for CO's release. CoH is an old dog that does the same tricks each Issue but with a different collar each time.

[Nerfherder]

That was because the devs didn't anticipate how much the players would expect out of such a feature. It originally wasn't going to contain things like custom bosses/mobs. It was delayed to add these features. Besides, to ease the waiting time, they split it into two issues, remember?

The only thing to do here is wait and see what the devs formally announce. Once the feature set is announced, the debate on how soon it will come out can begin.

Of course I remember. Do you also remember that i12 was launched in may, and i13 was delayed from fall to winter (dec 2nd) due to adding the MA, which later got pulled and put into it's own issue 5 months later?

Look, I'm not complaining, I'm just trying to show the PR game and how it usually goes. The titles that actually launch without delays are few and far between. Sims 3 should have gone gold in february, and it's still not out. Diablo 3 is even better at the hype which launched a gameplay video and not even telling when it's supposed to launch, but it still has their fanbase sitting around with their bollocks in a knot.

As I said earlier, I've put in at least 5000hrs of gaming into CoX, which wouldn't have happened if I hadn't thought it was a good game.

[EliteSandman]

While I was still acting playing CoX (I left 6 months ago as a 39 month vet), I particpated in a survey that was asking questions about the mission architect and this going rogue thing. Ultimately the details of this survey were largely reprinted in the forums, so I don't believe I am violating NDA by mentioning a few things here. Note it quickly become clear that MA was going to be put into the free issues, and this going rogue part I assumed was going into a paid expansion to help CoX compete against the coming competition.

The survey indicated the possibility of new starting zones, having your actions help define whether you went good or bad or somewhere in between etc. It also talked about a new space zone and extending the level cap to 60 via special enhancement slots (no details on these though). It sounded at the time exactly what CoX needed to do, to create some sort of end game content and interest.

Still for me it ios probably too late to convince me back - I am hanging out for this one now and playing WOW in the interim.

[Rabenschwinge]

I must admit, it frustrates me a little how the Architect Entertainment stuff turned out to be used. Giving players the opportunity to add their own dynamic content is a good thing in theory. Just the content they did add is frustrating. Keep it at flat as possible, keep the turnout as high as possible. Sometimes I wonder why people play MMORPGs at all if all the background stuff is a mere hindrance at all. Wouldn't people be happier playing something more abstract that doesn't bother you with having you claim you were a super hero, even though hardly any of us probably is in a comic sense of the expression, and simply keeps it abstract. Chess is a very fine game. High level PvP. You don't even need any scenario for it you can just play it! sighs

[Tank]

this really seems like a paid for expansion, ie. boxed copy so maybe a new engine aswell? who knows

[Nerfherder]

this really seems like a paid for expansion, ie. boxed copy so maybe a new engine aswell? who knows

With a new engine, it'll be many months away even if they buy an existing engine like the unreal engine or similar and adapt or keep developing their current one.

[Tank]

that's just it, we don't know, all we know is they hired a load of new people but if all this is all they've been working on i have to wonder how long can that engine keep going, hairline fractures in stablity have appeared after what was i-10 with the co-op zone? constant disconnection from the map server and such. look all i know with certainty is CO will eat into coh/v's player base, it won't kill it but will take a chunk out of it.

[Rabenschwinge]

lol
I never understood what people meant with stability issues when it comes to CoH. I played Star Wars Galaxies before. And compared to that City of Heroes simply doesn't have stability issues. :D

[Nerfherder]

that's just it, we don't know, all we know is they hired a load of new people but if all this is all they've been working on i have to wonder how long can that engine keep going, hairline fractures in stablity have appeared after what was i-10 with the co-op zone? constant disconnection from the map server and such. look all i know with certainty is CO will eat into coh/v's player base, it won't kill it but will take a chunk out of it.

Agreed.

One thing is very certain though, a little competition between business is always good for the customers.

[Twysta]

I played City Of Heroes and City Of Villians on and off since release. To have to pay for the option to make a character to be able to switch to the other side which I've already played countless of times doesn't seem right to me. There would be no interest to go back through what I've already had played. Seems like they should of released this just after City Of Villians was released while the content and new world was still fresh and fun to the players.

Some of my old friends have gone back to play the City of Heroes game again while they wait for another game to come out. This is a total guess, but I have a feeling, a lot of people are doing the same.

Some have been playing for 5 years. A new super hero game coming out with great looking graphics, new powers and travel powers and with a whole new world and hopefully not boring content might be what people need. A new fresh start.

They have a good fanbase and I wish them the best with their future plans and anyone who plays their game. I won't be returning to it. I am tempted to, just to fill in time until Champions comes out (I'm soo bored)

[jedite1000]

cox got bit boring for me..with the arch mission thing everyone is doing that now

[Rabenschwinge]

Hm... that's not quite fair though. I have no difficulties finding groups for Task Forces and the bigger story archs in CoH. At least not with my 50s.

[Tank]

yes but there in lies the problem if folks are to be believed, it's only at 2 points teams are readily available, low and high, no inbetween. but like i said if folks are to be believed

[Gel214th]

Sounds like a great idea. City Of Heroes/Villains represents the most feature complete MMORPG in my view. Their support of the game through free expansions has been second to none in the industry. they pioneered the customisation of characters and the move away from itemisation.

This expansion sounds amazing, adding even more depth to the already satisfying world and featureset of CoX.

One can't deny though that the pressure must be on since CO is launching, and then DC Universe Online next year (or year after).

The concern is that they don't have the cash to do a graphic engine overhaul to compete with the new shinies that are on the horizon.

Once I can afford it, they'll keep getting my subscription fees :-)

[Backstab]

But the engine is getting so old.

[Merrow]

It's all too little too late imo. CoH won't survive now without a sequel...

[BasiliskEye]

Too bad they didn't do this like 3 years ago, when I still gave a ****.

[karami92]

Im sure the switch will be seemless. No AT switching. I bet the Heroes and Villians have always been interchangable. They are just tacking on an Alignment bar to give it some "flavor" ;) lol :D

you are correct. a friend of mine took a villain into paragon city twice. once was a stalker that entered through a Pocket D glitch, which led him to team up with heros and run missions, proving that they have always been interchangable. The other time was when a GM screwed up and sent his brute there, which caused everyone to stare and wonder why a little green leprechaun brute just popped up by atlas statue. Both times were lols, but it still proves that they could have done this a lot sooner.

[Brodiewan]

I don't play CoH anymore, and a pay to play update won't make me come back.

[NastyCheese]

I have this gut feeling...

City of Villains in EU isn't really that active, most playing Blueside and after MA it got worse...

I feel that if Redsiders go Blueside do to more players... It may kill CoV.

But this is just a feeling.

[Gray_Scale]

That's interesting. Maybe I'll make that evil scrapper I was looking forward to before I got shafted into being a Stalker.


Either way, this sort of system is a much better idea for CO than it ever could have been for CoX given their archetype system.

[NastyCheese]

Either way, this sort of system is a much better idea for CO than it ever could have been for CoX given their archetype system.

This I agree with.

Paragon Studios will have alot of work cut out if they want to balance this all. I remember being told once what is the need for a Blaster or Defender when you have a Corruptor?

Either way if and when we get villains in CO, the power system would make crossing over easy... And hopefully done better then using old boring NPC characters.

[Nightweaver]

What is WITH people?

I have a question- Did either Everquest shut down? Did WoW shut down? Did Guild Wars shut down?

They're all fantasy MMOs, aren't they?

City of Heroes/Villains is a super hero MMO. Champions online is a super hero MMO. DC Universe Online is a super hero MMO. You're assuming here that there can only be one on the market at a time here.

CoX is COMPETING. They're putting their best foot forward now because competition is arriving, just like the fantasy MMOs did when each and every new one came out.

Champions Online will never kill CoX.

If it's debatable that TOR will kill Star Wars Galaxies, which has been dying since it launched, what makes you think CO will kill a fully living, successful game?

You may be very wrong here.

The piece your conclusion is missing is the fact that right now, the demographic for hero gaming is much much much smaller than fantasy. Hero play is a niche market. It has a specific group of fans but one that is nowhere near what fantasy provides.

What you need to understand is that because CoX is the only hero game out there, the subscriber numbers there forshadow what might be available generally. They are not absolute, but they give some indicator of the breadth of the subscriber pool from which to pull.

City of Heroes, at its height, hovered around 200,000 active subscribers. Currently it sits at a dismal 121,000. Considering it is the only game in town for Heroes, this is not promising. When Everquest held a monopoly on fantasy gaming while people were still figuring out how to get on the net, they had five times that many subscribers.

The effect of CO on City of Heroes won't really be clear until months after release. But the danger to CoX comes from a few very logical steps you can take looking at how CoX is doing. Because CoX is the only game in town, there is a body of CoX subscribers who are ONLY there because they have no other choice within the hero genre. In spite of this, CoX has been losing subscribers steadily since 2006 and hover at a dangerously low level for profitability.

When CO is released, the risk will be that these genre loyalists who have been done with CoX for a long time with nowhere to go will immediately jump ship and CoX's subscriber levels will plummet to record low levels. Sever merges and decreased development follow as revenues drop off and while the game may never truly close, it becomes a legacy wasteland.

I am not saying this is what WILL happen. I am saying this is what MIGHT happen based on the trends we've seen in CoX's slow decay. To me, this expansion allowing an even further blending of red and blue side to the point where distinctions become meaningless is a very very bad idea. It removes even more of what might have made CoX distinct and leaves it competing with an outdated, limited, and content dead world against CO's innovation.

Good luck with that guys.

-Nightweaver

[Algidus]

You may be very wrong here.

The piece your conclusion is missing is the fact that right now, the demographic for hero gaming is much much much smaller than fantasy. Hero play is a niche market. It has a specific group of fans but one that is nowhere near what fantasy provides.

What you need to understand is that because CoX is the only hero game out there, the subscriber numbers there forshadow what might be available generally. They are not absolute, but they give some indicator of the breadth of the subscriber pool from which to pull.

City of Heroes, at its height, hovered around 200,000 active subscribers. Currently it sits at a dismal 121,000. Considering it is the only game in town for Heroes, this is not promising. When Everquest held a monopoly on fantasy gaming while people were still figuring out how to get on the net, they had five times that many subscribers.

The effect of CO on City of Heroes won't really be clear until months after release. But the danger to CoX comes from a few very logical steps you can take looking at how CoX is doing. Because CoX is the only game in town, there is a body of CoX subscribers who are ONLY there because they have no other choice within the hero genre. In spite of this, CoX has been losing subscribers steadily since 2006 and hover at a dangerously low level for profitability.

When CO is released, the risk will be that these genre loyalists who have been done with CoX for a long time with nowhere to go will immediately jump ship and CoX's subscriber levels will plummet to record low levels. Sever merges and decreased development follow as revenues drop off and while the game may never truly close, it becomes a legacy wasteland.

I am not saying this is what WILL happen. I am saying this is what MIGHT happen based on the trends we've seen in CoX's slow decay. To me, this expansion allowing an even further blending of red and blue side to the point where distinctions become meaningless is a very very bad idea. It removes even more of what might have made CoX distinct and leaves it competing with an outdated, limited, and content dead world against CO's innovation.

Good luck with that guys.

-Nightweaver

All of this assumes that most people are dead set on only playing a single genre of MMO, be it fantasy, scifi or hero. This I think is simply not the case. Personally I don't know anyone like that.

That's not to say that CoX can't die, it is after all a pre-WoW game. MMO's back then were very different and the market alot smaller. They didn't have all the features that WoW made almost mandatory. So they could not compete in the post-WoW world.

[Stanito]

Wow! Who cares?! :D

You mean I can play the same content over with a different character, like an ALT? CoX fanbois.... wave something shiny at them and they come running. They can have it.

[AkumaMishima]

I won't try to dissuade people from liking or disliking this paid update, but if you're flying off the hook speculating about the additional content above and beyond the advertisement please ask yourself: If I'm trying to sell something, do I advertise the best features first, or the mediocre features first? Logically, you put whatever is best first. While new ATs and powersets would be nice, I doubt that either are included considering it would be more attractive than lolSide-switching and an indeterminate amount of altered or new zones.

[Nightweaver]

All of this assumes that most people are dead set on only playing a single genre of MMO, be it fantasy, scifi or hero. This I think is simply not the case. Personally I don't know anyone like that.

That's not to say that CoX can't die, it is after all a pre-WoW game. MMO's back then were very different and the market alot smaller. They didn't have all the features that WoW made almost mandatory. So they could not compete in the post-WoW world.

Not at all.

This assumes the CoH, as the only genre game, drew from the general MMO population a representative sample of what might be available for games of its kind. So as the only hero MMO, it gathered roughly 200,000 subscribers from the general population of NON hero players (of which everyone was at that time).

Don't mistake my comments to mean that CoX's population is the only source for CO players. Not at all. If that were the case, CO would already be doomed. However any game DOES benefit from being the only game in their genre. It gives them an automatic in with people who prefer playing heroes.

My concern is that CO's release will deliver a deadly blow to CoX by taking a huge chunk of those subscribers. If they can't hold a solid profitable margin as the only game in their field, they are going to be in serious trouble when competition arrives.

-Nightweaver

[Grazer]

It seems like they were saving this feature for when Champions online was going to be released...

I agree with ya.

[Steelyeye]

Too bad they didn't do this like 3 years ago, when I still gave a ****.

I'll agreed to this. :)

This is a great idea, and should have happened a long time ago.

[Grazer]

You mean the development team that CO has said would 'never' do...

Do people really have such short memories, or is the "POSITRON = ANTICHRIST" nonsense so deeply ingrained?

Postiron is not the antichrist. In fact I think he has done a great job up untill the latest MA thing goin on. In fact on the "antichrist" front, I believe the "Jack is the antichrist" is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY above and beyond on the CoX forums, from anything Positron has even come close to here. Over there you would think that Jack has killed their dog, burned down their house, slapped their babys and so on from the way they behave on their forums on the Jack subject.

[Nightweaver]

Positron, in my book, has done the greatest good for CoX overall. I have a great deal of respect for what he was able to achieve despite the crippled game he inherited. Kudos to him.

-Nightweaver

[RandomGuy]

I hope CO puts this in the game later on, hopefully not after 5 years though.

[Lothic]

next up, power customization, another long requested feature bogged down by that classic response from positron and back alley brawler "it's too much work"

Well based on evidence of the "market survey" that came out for CoX back in August 2008 they have been working on this Going Rogue expansion at least that long. Based on other posts the CoX Devs have hinted at this exapnsion has been in the works for years even before that.

So when the CoX Devs told us power customization would take "too much time" it's reasonable to think it might be something that would take a few years... exactly the few years they have apparently been working on this new expansion. The 'math' on that seems pretty straightforward.

It may be too early to know for sure, but it appears quite possible that an expansion that has been in the works for several years could easily provide updates like power customization (which is actually implied in the Going Rogue trailer) and updated graphics. If they end up releasing it some time before the end of the year it'll be perfect timing for those people who’ve played CO for a few months and gotten bored with it because it has relatively little content at launch. ;)

Ulitimately if I end up alternating between CoX and CO every few months leapfroging back and forth through their respective updates I'd consider it a very good thing. :)

[Tank]

Coh/v needs a new engine graphically and gameplay wise, it's been a good engine but it's age is the biggest hurdle it's facing now

[The.Giant.Evil.Bunny]

Considering nearly every single MMO released (including WoW), first released with huge issues and a Closed Beta community clamoring for more time and how "it's not finished", many of them still releasing with massive troubles and more than a few broken promises, my expectations for CO at launch are as even tempered as they can be.

That being said, it's nice to think I might take some time and head back to CoX for a spell while CO settles down and finds it's groove. Hell, I'll still play for a while at launch, usually 6 months go by before I'm ready to take a break while Devs finish / repair things.

Something like this isn't a "last hurrah" though. CoX is a stable game, with a firm foundation. Its nice to see they still have room to grow there.

[Wicked_Angel]

Wow. As Lothic said, it might be interesting enough to check out at the end of the year while waiting for new CO content.

[Prototype]

so it looks like cox is on its last leg. the one thing they allways said they would never do they are doing.
heres the email i got-

ps- tldr For the first time, Hero characters can become Villains and vice versa, enabling Heroes to cross over to the Rogue Isles™ and Villains to experience Paragon City™.


Paragon Studios™ is proud to officially announce the next City of Heroes® expansion, City of Heroes Going Rogue™! This will be the first major expansion for the City of Heroes franchise since the launch of City of Villains® in 2005.

Praetoria, a utopian mirror to our own world, hides a dark secret. Exploring this mysterious alternate earth, the heroes and villains of this world feel an uneasiness of doubt creep over them. Loyalties are questioned. Choices are made. Lines are drawn. As they search for the truth behind Emperor Cole and his Praetorian guard, brutal foes and fierce allies emerge, turning this once blissful paradise into a battle ground.

City of Heroes Going Rogue officially opens the "mirror universe" of Praetoria and an all-new alignment system that explores the shades of gray that lie between Heroes and Villains. For the first time, Hero characters can become Villains and vice versa, enabling Heroes to cross over to the Rogue Isles™ and Villains to experience Paragon City™.

Sounds cool.

[Sharks]

It seems like they were saving this feature for when Champions online was going to be released...

Sounds like it.

Frankly, its too late.

I wanted this for YEARS. I was a strong advocate on the forums and everything.

And now the same CoX forum whiners who scream and shout at any suggestion and say its 'not needed!' and 'wrong!' are the same ones who are yelling 'omg its great!' now that its been officially announced. They just squeal at every suggestion as a matter of principle, I found over the years.. same happened with the invulnerability issue. A fix 'wasn't needed!' then when a fix was announced, it was 'about time!'. Pfft.

Anyway, not to diverge.. its too late. They have had this on the drawing books for years I know. They were holding it back for the competition, i'll bet.

[Grazer]

The thing is this. If any of you think this is a new game engine update...........check out the official page for the expansion. Look closely at the bottom of the page.......what do you see?............Why a Cryptic logo!

And we all know what that means don't we? Yep.........they are using the same Cryptic game engine that CoX uses for the expansion also!


Just a bit of f.y.i. for those gettn real excited over this news.

[TacticGirl]

How is this going to work with the way their archetypes are? Do you change to the archetype most like yours, ie Tankers become Brutes? If that's the case, then what is a Mastermind gonna become?

Sounds awkward.

Not awkward every thing can be the same. Nick Fury is a mastermind. A leader of men. I don't think the archetypes will change.

That said two little to late. I will always love COH/V, but we all heroes no matter what side of game we played on anyways. Fighting the same enemies... etc.

[Zerideth]

I remember there was talk of a new expansion for CoX a while ago. I don't know if it was on this board or the CoX board but...there was a rumor going around that in the new expansion there was going to be a new AT called a Spy. This will probably be the anti hero class.

About the hint of a new starting zone, I bet my left arm it's going to be Praetorian and after the tutorial, you get to choose which side you want to go to.

[5honuff]

I just started playing CoH a month ago as a stop gap until CO is released. My Character is lvl 32 now and I have mixed feelings on the game. This is the first MMO I've really played.

Frankly, I have felt a bit lost in the game. Its fun, and I like my character, but for me it's not that fun playing solo. I've been in a few teams which was much more fun, but it seems like everyone who teams wants to play AE stuff. I played some of that, and it was fun, but then I realized I was out leveling content by playing with them and getting auto-sk'd to fight lvl 48-51 baddies.

If switching sides would be merely a repeat of the same experience I'll pass. I'm really interested in CO anyway, and hope that the combat is more varied and interesting.

I have enjoyed my time with CoH but because of the state of the game, I feel a bit cheated of the whole experience, (not complaining just saying) due in part I'm sure to my inexperience.

I'll probably keep playing until CO comes out to get my superhero fix (I'm the minority who will only play superhero MMO) and hope I can get a team somehow to do the respec mission with me....

[HighJinks]

I know how you feel. Leveling's gotten boring and repetitive at this point, and the only thing holding me to the game are the RP aspects and friends. And I'm part if the same minority too, heh.

[RandomGuy]

I just started playing CoH a month ago as a stop gap until CO is released. My Character is lvl 32 now and I have mixed feelings on the game. This is the first MMO I've really played.

Frankly, I have felt a bit lost in the game. Its fun, and I like my character, but for me it's not that fun playing solo. I've been in a few teams which was much more fun, but it seems like everyone who teams wants to play AE stuff. I played some of that, and it was fun, but then I realized I was out leveling content by playing with them and getting auto-sk'd to fight lvl 48-51 baddies.

If switching sides would be merely a repeat of the same experience I'll pass. I'm really interested in CO anyway, and hope that the combat is more varied and interesting.

I have enjoyed my time with CoH but because of the state of the game, I feel a bit cheated of the whole experience, (not complaining just saying) due in part I'm sure to my inexperience.

I'll probably keep playing until CO comes out to get my superhero fix (I'm the minority who will only play superhero MMO) and hope I can get a team somehow to do the respec mission with me....

IMO dont play the AE unless you want to powerlevel your character. They only added in recently to try to get people to start playing again so hopefully we wont see it in CO because again IMO i think it ruined the game.

[Farmer42]

IMO dont play the AE unless you want to powerlevel your character. They only added in recently to try to get people to start playing again so hopefully we wont see it in CO because again IMO i think it ruined the game.

See, and I disagree. With AE, a lowbie can play interesting, diverse mishes early on, instead of farming the Hollows. And make no mistake, that's all the Hollows mishes are. They're farming runs to justify leveling. So my options are to run player chreated mishes, which have interesting stories and characters, or I can go out and pummel x number of Trolls or Skulls. The last time I tried subbing to CoX, I got to the Hollows and gave up. I resubbed last week, and I'm having a ball running the AE content instead of the Hollows content, and I don't think I'm alone.

[marach]

after posi's rant about kicking players using AE to power level you cant even use it for that anymore :rolleyes:

[marach]

See, and I disagree. With AE, a lowbie can play interesting, diverse mishes early on, instead of farming the Hollows.

you know in 10 characters i've only ever done the hollows once.. i take the talk to wilcox mission complete it then go back to my old contacts no hollows crap and i level faster as less long distance running

[5honuff]

I like the idea of AE very much. I just hope if something like it comes to CO that it doesn't have the powerleveling effect and that there are enough people to play the rest of the content with

[Nightweaver]

I wish I could offer you a better outlook.

I've played 2 characters Blue side to 50. 2 more on Red side.

There is no difference in play. None at all. Red side plays for the most part exactly like blue side except the zones are a little different in scenery and the backstory behind the missions is criminal. The missions you run at 30 will look exactly like the ones you run at 50, you'll just have a few more powers to use then and see bigger numbers flash by. The layout, the challenge, and the tactics will remain the same. Once you get to 50, there is nothing to do.

In CoX, the only thing there is to do is level. Rushing through CoX is rushing to boredom. In general, the game can be broken down into these stages:

1-22 - the hungry climb to the base powers you will need to really play your character including SOs. Not so fun.
23-38 - This is where 'fun' play can happen. You'll do the same thing over and over, but at least you have new powers to look forward to that flesh out the basics you earned in the first bracket.
39-50 - rampant, repetitive boredom. There is nothing new to look forward to. There is nothing to do once you get there.

My advice to most CoX players is to play to 38-9 and either start over or stop.

-Nightweaver

[RandomGuy]

I wish I could offer you a better outlook.

I've played 2 characters Blue side to 50. 2 more on Red side.

There is no difference in play. None at all. Red side plays for the most part exactly like blue side except the zones are a little different in scenery and the backstory behind the missions is criminal. The missions you run at 30 will look exactly like the ones you run at 50, you'll just have a few more powers to use then and see bigger numbers flash by. The layout, the challenge, and the tactics will remain the same. Once you get to 50, there is nothing to do.

In CoX, the only thing there is to do is level. Rushing through CoX is rushing to boredom. In general, the game can be broken down into these stages:

1-22 - the hungry climb to the base powers you will need to really play your character including SOs. Not so fun.
23-38 - This is where 'fun' play can happen. You'll do the same thing over and over, but at least you have new powers to look forward to that flesh out the basics you earned in the first bracket.
39-50 - rampant, repetitive boredom. There is nothing new to look forward to. There is nothing to do once you get there.

My advice to most CoX players is to play to 38-9 and either start over or stop.

-Nightweaver

This is where I find myself in the game right now. Have a 44 I would like to level but it is just so boring. But I am having tons of fun with new characters. I'm still having fun and I will continue to play, I guess I'm just use to WoW where the game doesn't start till your 80

[Yeti-Tech]

Bout time on this one. i mean really I don't RP a whole lot, but what is the point of RP if you basically have a script handed to you(can't change alignments). At least it's how i see it anyway.
I also noted when i saw the box at the store, that you will be able to make your own instanced missions for others to go on.
really nothing like user content to keep a game going(hello half-life)

All that said i had my fun in CoX, but the affair is over and i won't be going back.

So how you doing CO bayby, don't you think it's high time we got to know each other a little better...

[Samhain]

I wish I could offer you a better outlook.

I've played 2 characters Blue side to 50. 2 more on Red side.

There is no difference in play. None at all. Red side plays for the most part exactly like blue side except the zones are a little different in scenery and the backstory behind the missions is criminal. The missions you run at 30 will look exactly like the ones you run at 50, you'll just have a few more powers to use then and see bigger numbers flash by. The layout, the challenge, and the tactics will remain the same. Once you get to 50, there is nothing to do.

In CoX, the only thing there is to do is level. Rushing through CoX is rushing to boredom. In general, the game can be broken down into these stages:

1-22 - the hungry climb to the base powers you will need to really play your character including SOs. Not so fun.
23-38 - This is where 'fun' play can happen. You'll do the same thing over and over, but at least you have new powers to look forward to that flesh out the basics you earned in the first bracket.
39-50 - rampant, repetitive boredom. There is nothing new to look forward to. There is nothing to do once you get there.

My advice to most CoX players is to play to 38-9 and either start over or stop.

-Nightweaver

In all fairness it helps to have friends and to know WHERE the good content is. If you burn through all the interesting content you'll find nothing to do from 40-50.

But yes, the games long overdue for some dev generated content. Cimerora and the RWZ can provide some interesting stories with solid places to gain levels if you don't burn through all its content as fast as possible.

One of my biggest problems with the game is about people who say theres nothing to do at 50 who havn't completed the TFs (especially Statesmans) trails, or defeated any GMs. This is why I think the game needs to reward more for difficult tasks, not reward everything evenly. If this were the case I think you'd see more people battling the giant squid or doing the Statesman taskforce. It probably doesn't help that I also played on one of the 3 most lowly populated servers either.

[5honuff]

Hmm, that actually kinda echoes what I'm starting to sense in playing. I hated Hollows stuff, but once I got to around lvl 20 I really was excited and having fun with my character. But as I progress through lvl 31 and upward I'm getting a bit worried about the repetitive nature of the game.

I started writing an AE mish, not a farm, but a real mission and I find that cool and fun although not all that I'd like it to be. I hope that it is fleshed out when CO comes out with something like that because being able to fully design missions would be a lot of fun.

I have yet to do any PvP mainly because I'm scared haha. I have no idea what to expect, no one to team with regularly as i've either leveled way past people I played with due to my inadvertent yet enjoyable, AE farming and all the people I've met just want to do the AE farming now.

Also, I've heard such bad things about PvP in CoH I dunno. I'm getting more bummed about CoX. Can I have a beta key now Cryptic? ;)

[Samhain]

Hmm, that actually kinda echoes what I'm starting to sense in playing. I hated Hollows stuff, but once I got to around lvl 20 I really was excited and having fun with my character. But as I progress through lvl 31 and upward I'm getting a bit worried about the repetitive nature of the game.

I started writing an AE mish, not a farm, but a real mission and I find that cool and fun although not all that I'd like it to be. I hope that it is fleshed out when CO comes out with something like that because being able to fully design missions would be a lot of fun.

I have yet to do any PvP mainly because I'm scared haha. I have no idea what to expect, no one to team with regularly as i've either leveled way past people I played with due to my inadvertent yet enjoyable, AE farming and all the people I've met just want to do the AE farming now.

Also, I've heard such bad things about PvP in CoH I dunno. I'm getting more bummed about CoX. Can I have a beta key now Cryptic? ;)


Don't even get me started on the pvp.

[geldonyetich]

Personally, I've been looking forward to playing a Mastermind or Stalker blue side for quite some itme. Really, just about all the villain types suit my high-damage preferance. I just don't rest easy assuming the role of the bad guy.

However, just before hearing about this, I canceled my City of Heroes account. The mission architech actually was a step in a very wrong direction for me. I prefer players to be in the game world and contributing to it, not off designing their own little segments. It both diluted the game and killed that sense of greater dynamic purpose which is so important to veteran players.

[5honuff]

I also just wanted to say almost to the person, that I've played with, when asked about CO, they said, "huh? Wut's CO?"

[_Pax_]

so it looks like cox is on its last leg. the one thing they allways said they would never do they are doing.
heres the email i got-

ps- tldr For the first time, Hero characters can become Villains and vice versa, enabling Heroes to cross over to the Rogue Isles™ and Villains to experience Paragon City™.
That was a feature that they wanted to implement from the beginning of CoV. Not something they said "we will never do".

...

And that actually tempts me to re-subscribe to CoH, despite my reasons for leaving.:eek:

[Hecks]

Frick... I have wanted CoH to have this feature since they released City of Villains....
Who's to say that everyone is either "good" or "evil"? You should have to earn your status as hero or villain.

Though, that would probably complicate the game mechanics that they have presently. It would be great to see a scale of morality in your inventory, not unlike the one in Knights of the Old Republic 2 or Fable!

Also, how cool would it be... if you were posing as a hero... then lead your team into malevolent trap!
*Shrug* I thought they would learn from City of Heroes/Villains, that people like to be villains... and not just heroes.

[_Pax_]

Hey, that brings up a good point, this actually might make pvp fun again.

I could make my stalker a hero and not have to fear 10 layers of stealth detection and scrappers/blasters seeing me from across the map.

... except he Blasters and Scrappers might just go Villain. :)

[AkumaMishima]

That was a feature that they wanted to implement from the beginning of CoV. Not something they said "we will never do".

...

And that actually tempts me to re-subscribe to CoH, despite my reasons for leaving.:eek:

I think the poster you're quoting is referring to paid updates, not side-switching.

While I don't particularly remember them saying they'd never do a paid update, they've prided themselves on "free updates" frequently citing them as a strength of the company.

[Blackjon_Bludd]

i wanted this years ago when i was collecting badges.... too late for me now :(

[Kinestron]

There are only so many ways I'm willing to play the same content over again. This is not one of them.


-

[ravorn]

it prolly wont be out even till months after CO. Like Christmas minimum.

[RedCossack]

Unless they plan on doing more than letting you run hero side missions (and vice versa), I don't see the appeal.

[Nostraphex]

sounds like a regular issue i agree.
But hopefully there will be more... ;)
MORE POWERsets or classes imo.

It seems to me that this will either calm people or make them hope for more, but it would not attract many new people. I've played CoH for quite a while until I realized, through playing other games, that the slow pace of combat was what eventually turned me off to the game. Hopefully (as far as I can see) CO offers the fun and fast-paced action Heroes deserve!

[Iggylove]

Having options I think is never a bad thing. I will play CoX until CO comes out. Hang on to both accounts and see what is what. I agree with most though. At this point, CoX biggest problem is they are handcuffed by an outdated engine. So I wonder if they are limited on what they can offer even if NCSOFT poured a bunch of funds into the game.

Anyways, I will be digging both games since I am not into really any other MMOs at this time. I hope both do good. Plus people make it out like Jack and Matt hate each other. I thought I read they are still friends..but things could have changed who knows.
~Iggy

[Prodiguy]

Reading both forums, I'm not sure why even a few people want either game to fail.

If both are alive and actively competing, you will start having faster development, more new features, better customer service, the whole sha-bang. You win when companies compete.

If one fails, the other can and likely will get lazy. They don't need to try so hard to retain you because, hey, where ELSE are you gonna go?

[Tank]

Reading both forums, I'm not sure why even a few people want either game to fail.

If both are alive and actively competing, you will start having faster development, more new features, better customer service, the whole sha-bang. You win when companies compete.

If one fails, the other can and likely will get lazy. They don't need to try so hard to retain you because, hey, where ELSE are you gonna go?

That sir makes sense.

[Arghiver]

Wow! Who cares?! :D

You mean I can play the same content over with a different character, like an ALT? CoX fanbois.... wave something shiny at them and they come running. They can have it.

*shrug*

Seems to be working perfectly for WoW. Every single instance in the game save perhaps the new Ulduar one is fundamentally the same. The only difference being they have different wallpaper.

Heck, replace "dungeon" with "raid" and it's not even different wallpaper. Blizzard makes billions off the fact that people absolutely love to play the same content over, and over, and over, and over again.


Also, I don't mean to upset you with this, but you'll be doing the same thing in CO.

[Zalb]

I'll probably get the thing, don't think I'll continue after the free month.

[Akaiku]

A lot of the people in this thread are all, "I quit CoX and I'm never ever going back until it's a different game."

Ok? It's almost certainly never going to be a different game. You can save a bit of effort by ignoring it forever, ya know. Personally, that seems like a cool thing, I can finally play around in the shard as some of my favorite villains. Plus, it has interesting possibilities with more power sets being available to the existing archetypes. Plus! New toys are fun.

Also, I can afford 2 MMO subscriptions easy.

[poptart_fairy]

A lot of the people in this thread are all, "I quit CoX and I'm never ever going back until it's a different game."

Yeah. I'm starting to wonder if a lot of former ex-CoX players are on this forum simply because they can no longer use the CoX one to complain about it.

:|

[Dargarth]

I am looking forward to the new Expansion set and Issue 15. :)

[badbal]

Plus, it has interesting possibilities with more power sets being available to the existing archetypes. Plus! New toys are fun.


more powersets? when did they announce that?

[Ynaught]

See, and I disagree. With AE, a lowbie can play interesting, diverse mishes early on, instead of farming the Hollows. And make no mistake, that's all the Hollows mishes are. They're farming runs to justify leveling. So my options are to run player chreated mishes, which have interesting stories and characters, or I can go out and pummel x number of Trolls or Skulls. The last time I tried subbing to CoX, I got to the Hollows and gave up. I resubbed last week, and I'm having a ball running the AE content instead of the Hollows content, and I don't think I'm alone.

Heh, I'd almost completely forgotten about the Hollows until I read this post. Maybe I'll have to go take a look at it again. I played through the Hollows once when it first came out and have never taken another character through it again.

Talk to Wincott? Sure.

There I talked to him. Time to head to KR and have fun. :)

As for the AE content.. man, I was so hoping it would be some good stuff in there. I look and look and look for good AE missions and all I keep finding is utter crap. I ran one of the Dev Choice missions the other day, Opera of the Abyss, what a mess that was. Just not my cup of tea I suppose, since it's had thousands of plays and is a Devs Choice arc. But if something like that can get Devs Choice... meh. I never figured out why the hell there were Rikti in the arc, or why at the beginning they talked like "normal" RIkti and then later in the same mission were talking like everyone else, no "Rikti-speak". Then in later missions it was like they were a "hive mind" type deal. Made NO sense to me at all.

Anyway, I think that Going Rogue will help CoH retain some of it's players. But I do know that many people are planning on trying out CO and that will cut into CoH subs. I just hope that CoH can weatehr the storm of CO and that both games can do well when DCUO is released. Having 3 superhero MMO's to choose from sounds very nice.

[Savato]

judging by the response given by the fanbois -er forum goers of coh, they don't need to. Side swapping and an indeterminate number of new zones appears to be all they need to keep the fanbois appeased (for a paid expansion no less).

Frankly, I had held a small glimmer of hope for a few powerset corrections and perhaps the addition of pistols for ranged sets but i15's pitiful display, even more costume packs, and now the introduction of paid issues has frankly stamped this hope out entirely.

I apologize for the dramatics, but this is disappointing.

If, after five years, a company repays you with paid expansions that virtually replace the old-stand-by free issues, they are not doing you a favor. By all means, please do not show them gratitude.


This is what happens when a game development company tries to squeeze every last penny out of a game it possibly can. While it means more than likely good news for Champions, current CoX fans can't help but feel they're being phased out on a game (alot of people) have spent the past few years playing.


I challenge Cryptic to release one last, major, free, badass update before Champions releases. Don't know what, though. But I feel sorry for the CoX players who are getting what they're getting right now.

[SaintKairos]

Wonder what that'd do for patron pool powers, if you'd be able to go hero and get the vastly superior APPs instead
they rebalanced the APPs to the Patrons a couple issues ago, imperfectly perhaps, but they made each list for each class far more useful that they used to be, and they nerfed the "uberness" of many of the super-duper APPs, like FA.
-

[geldonyetich]

A lot of the people in this thread are all, "I quit CoX and I'm never ever going back until it's a different game."

Ok? It's almost certainly never going to be a different game. You can save a bit of effort by ignoring it forever, ya know. Personally, that seems like a cool thing, I can finally play around in the shard as some of my favorite villains. Plus, it has interesting possibilities with more power sets being available to the existing archetypes. Plus! New toys are fun.

Also, I can afford 2 MMO subscriptions easy.
It's burnout. Play a game long enough, and it happens. A lot of the players here are City of Heroes veterans, here because (believe it or not) Champions Online is very much conceived as a successor product by the creators of City of Heroes.

When you're adequately burned out, there's little reason to stay subscribed, but you sort of hope the game will change enough you can get some more enjoyment out of it.

Another reason to avoid playing City of Heroes is to let my super hero MMORPG batteries recharge so that when I play Champions Online it will feel fresher.

[SaintKairos]

This is what happens when a game development company tries to squeeze every last penny out of a game it possibly can. While it means more than likely good news for Champions, current CoX fans can't help but feel they're being phased out on a game (alot of people) have spent the past few years playing.


I challenge Cryptic to release one last, major, free, badass update before Champions releases. Don't know what, though. But I feel sorry for the CoX players who are getting what they're getting right now.
I'm honestly at a loss to figure out what you mean by Cryptic releasing one last update.
do you mean CoX?
Cryptic doesn't have that game anymore.
do you mean CO?
that game isn't out yet and therefore can't be "updated" since it's released version will BE the most updated version by definition when it releases, that's like saying someone needs to do better at math when they aren't out the womb yet... there's no "benchmark" made public to update yet.

Does Cryptic have another game out that I don't know about that they can update?
not to my knowledge.
-

[HamboJones]

i really wanted that when i was playing but the way the game is now i wont spend a buck on it :(

Yep I quit for good after the latest NCsoft bull with the MA system...bad enough they ruined PvP. Now all I can say is too little; too late. The same crappy AI + the same mission maps + the same zones = paid expansion? They're still tring to sweep the CoP trial, base raids, Hami and quite a few other things under the rug. Now they are gonna try to charge for it? I think they either have a team of monkies directing their company or they're bleeding money so bad they have no choise but make a last ditch effort.

My buddy said it best when he said "Hell, they don't need CO and DCO to destroy this game...... they'll do it themselves."

[Nerisse]

I don't really like how this expansion's biggest selling point thus far is side-switching, which reads to me like "We're rehashing old content even more than we already are now." New powersets are, essentially, the same thing - incentive for people to go back and level alts with said new powersets to keep playing for lack of anything else in the game.

[Akaiku]

I don't really like how this expansion's biggest selling point thus far is side-switching, which reads to me like "We're rehashing old content even more than we already are now." New powersets are, essentially, the same thing - incentive for people to go back and level alts with said new powersets to keep playing for lack of anything else in the game.

So.... playing the game again as there is nothing else to do but play it? What exactly do you want? As near as I can tell, SWO went and changed its combat and gameplay mid-game and everyone got upset and rage-quit. Why would ANY mmo do that again?

[AkumaMishima]

So.... playing the game again as there is nothing else to do but play it? What exactly do you want? As near as I can tell, SWO went and changed its combat and gameplay mid-game and everyone got upset and rage-quit. Why would ANY mmo do that again?

if you want to generalize the criticisms so that they're easier for you to digest go ahead. But there's a difference between saying, "playing the posi TF with a Stalker or Cor isn't worth $50" and what you're suggesting.

What do critics of this paid expansion want? The same level of quality issues that put out i7-i12 without having to pay above and beyond the sub fee.

[_Pax_]

It's burnout. Play a game long enough, and it happens. A lot of the players here are City of Heroes veterans, here because (believe it or not) Champions Online is very much conceived as a successor product by the creators of City of Heroes.

And me, I just object to certain elements of the community management. To avoid being deleted and then banned for bringing bad vibes here from anotehr forum, I won't name names, but it's three very specific NCsoft employees whose actions prompted me to unsubscribe. I honestly hope none of them still work there (or, heck, anywhere, ever again) when this product is released, so that I can (with at least a HALF-clear ocnscience) enjoy COH/V for a few months, "one last time" before ChO takes my interest entirely.

I must admit, I miss some of my old characters, and I'd've liked to get my 40-something scrapper to 50 (thus hitting 50 once on EACH side) before leaving. Especially as he's a borderline anti-hero ANYway, and he'd make a great candidate for side-switching once he hit 50.

...

I will have to think, and ponder, and weigh my desire to play and nostalgia for certain of my characters there ... against both my continuing hatred for certain aforementioned persons, and my principles. I do not yet know which will win out.

[jeaf7]

CoH is going down when Champions comes out. CoH will have to be free to play to just keep up. CoH was fun while it lasted.

[geldonyetich]

CoH is going down when Champions comes out. CoH will have to be free to play to just keep up. CoH was fun while it lasted.

Yes and no.

Will Champions Online be a spiritual successor to City of Heroes which makes City of Heroes seem obsolete in some important fundamental ways? Yes.

Will Champions Online resemble City of Heroes enough that there will be no niche for players looking for the slower paced, more strategic gameplay in City of Heroes? No.

To paraphrase the Champions Online developers, Champions Online's combat speed will be to City Of Heroes as City Of Heroes combat speed is to most MMORPGs. It'll be fast, real fast, and pretty arcady. Some people might not prefer that. I might not prefer that. I guess we'll see when we get a chance to try it.

[SovereignDark]

Im down for it, I think its really about time they did a real expansion. Adding alot to the table at one time instead of just a few things here and there.

It looks cool, but I would say that if Champions delivers what I am expecting then I will be canceling my CoH subscription once and for all, and from what it seems Going Rogue is a wee bit down the road from now. Possibly 2010 or late '09

[Lothic]

Unless they plan on doing more than letting you run hero side missions (and vice versa), I don't see the appeal.
The appeal is going to be that in ADDITION to letting heroes and villains switch sides there's going to be an entirely NEW set of zones to support the “Neutral” areas.

It seems most people are missing the idea that the Going Rogue expansion is going to be like adding another "faction" to the game potentially as significant and big as adding CoV was to the game. We have City of Heroes and City of Villains - Going Rogue could have easily been called "City of Neutrals" because it'll stand as its own "City" separate from the original two.

[Lothic]

If both are alive and actively competing, you will start having faster development, more new features, better customer service, the whole sha-bang. You win when companies compete.
The way I figure it is if the Devs of CO and CoX are smart about it they'll alternate the timing between their major updates and spread them out so that I can play the new content of one for a month or two while waiting for the other. ;)

[AkumaMishima]

The appeal is going to be that in ADDITION to letting heroes and villains switch sides there's going to be an entirely NEW set of zones to support the “Neutral” areas.

It seems most people are missing the idea that the Going Rogue expansion is going to be like adding another "faction" to the game potentially as significant and big as adding CoV was to the game. We have City of Heroes and City of Villains - Going Rogue could have easily been called "City of Neutrals" because it'll stand as its own "City" separate from the original two.

Potentially depends strongly on how many new zones, just how different they happen to be considering they've been described as mirror images, and most importantly if several new ATs are introduced.

if Going Rogue introduces as much content as cov's expansion, I will admit it's worthwhile. But honestly, given the few details we've been granted so far it's just a lot of wishful thinking, which is 100% fine... as long as we treat it as wishful thinking instead of fact.

[Orion2008]

its seeming pretty cool. but idk if i really want to get it. ill be tempted. but id wrather play CO then get it. seeming like this is just going to be a failed Expansion unless somehow its super amazing

[Arghiver]

CoH is going down when Champions comes out. CoH will have to be free to play to just keep up. CoH was fun while it lasted.

Lol, I know because EQ, DaoC, FFXI, AC, and AO shut down and EQ2 was never released after WoW came out!

It's going to be the same here. I mean, seriously, why do companies think there can possibly be two similar games on the market at the same time!

[Lothic]

Potentially depends strongly on how many new zones, just how different they happen to be considering they've been described as mirror images, and most importantly if several new ATs are introduced.

if Going Rogue introduces as much content as cov's expansion, I will admit it's worthwhile. But honestly, given the few details we've been granted so far it's just a lot of wishful thinking, which is 100% fine... as long as we treat it as wishful thinking instead of fact.

It's a good thing i WASN'T just wishfully thinking (http://www.massively.com/2008/08/09/alleged-ncsoft-survey-may-lay-out-spectacular-new-cox-direction) about all this.
We've had a good idea about what's going to come from this for months now. ;)

[badbal]

It's a good thing i WASN'T just wishfully thinking (http://www.massively.com/2008/08/09/alleged-ncsoft-survey-may-lay-out-spectacular-new-cox-direction) about all this.
We've had a good idea about what's going to come from this for months now. ;)

Now its starting to shape up like an xpac :D - Have to say their advertisements are extremely weak, theres alot of features written there that the advertisment did not mention :confused: (Custom Power Gfx, Spy Archtype).

[AkumaMishima]

It's a good thing i WASN'T just wishfully thinking (http://www.massively.com/2008/08/09/alleged-ncsoft-survey-may-lay-out-spectacular-new-cox-direction) about all this.
We've had a good idea about what's going to come from this for months now. ;)

but none of that's official though.

I mean we could spin wheels about Avilans and Incarnates and electric hammers too, they mentioned those years ago, right? That link is months old (2 and half short of a year), the expansion details mention less than half of that wish list, and there's been no screenshots / videos / interviews.

I'm sure its fun to run on speculation, but it's not based on genuine sources.

[tez6zet]

I think its a great idea, in theory. Good stories, IMHO, do not have cut-and-dry good or evil. There are always shades of grey, which is what I think Going Rogue is trying to implement. If all goes well this will be brilliant expantion that might make me reactivate my acount for a month or two.

[Nerfherder]

Lol, I know because EQ, DaoC, FFXI, AC, and AO shut down and EQ2 was never released after WoW came out!

It's going to be the same here. I mean, seriously, why do companies think there can possibly be two similar games on the market at the same time!

Alot of this has been going on in this thread, and it's most likely nothing but hyperboles. The market can sustain more than 3 MMO's, as there already are others than WoW, CoH and Eve-Online out there.

The only thing that might kill off CoH is bad PR or no PR. There will always be ppl that prefer CoH over CO and the other way around, there will be ppl that prefer DCUO over both the others, and then we have the fanbois which is a whole different subject (you can take the game away from the fanboi, but you can't take the fanboi away from the game).

What really puzzles me is this: A couple of years ago superhero movies came into town and took over from Lord of the Rings, and they've been ruling ever since. How come then that "everyone and their grandmothers" are playing WoW and not CoH (only option right now)? Basically because they don't know about superhero MMO's existence. Feed the PR monster FFS. If it could turn Bush, the talking monkey into president it can sure as hell sustain multiple superhero MMO's as well.

I'm willing to bet money that there are at least 100k ppl playing WoW, that would love to play a superhero MMO instead if they just knew about it.

[Lothic]

but none of that's official though.

I mean we could spin wheels about Avilans and Incarnates and electric hammers too, they mentioned those years ago, right? That link is months old (2 and half short of a year), the expansion details mention less than half of that wish list, and there's been no screenshots / videos / interviews.

I'm sure its fun to run on speculation, but it's not based on genuine sources.
It's based on the survey the CoX Devs did in fact put out in August 2008. Couldn't be much more "genuine" than that. And parts of it that talk about the (then future) MA are remarkably accurate today.

Obviously the final product may be somewhat different than what the survey spelled out all those months ago. But I figure even if that survey only ends of being 2/3 predictive of what Going Rogue ends up being then that's going to be fairly significant. A lot more significant than -just- letting heroes and villains switch sides at any rate.

[wondermonkee]

I think this feature sounds awesome...and is actually one of the things I was hoping CO would launch with. (which DCUO claims they will)

I was also excited for CO to launch with Secret Identities but that got put on the back burner...

I also wish that CO would have started out with villains. It seems like a lot to add them later...

It would be like WOW starting off with just the alliance and adding in the horde later. It would just be missing something. I would rather they had started with villains and added nemesis later...but maybe they already have a plan. I just think COX did the whole thing very wrong and I would hate to see them make the same mistake with CO.

wow I am really getting off topic. I am excited about the game...really fanboy excited haha

I guess now that so many features are locked in/out for launch I am already lamenting the the features I was looking forward too that got held back.

I love everything in the game and everything they have talked about I guess I just have a different level of priority then Cryptic does.

but there will be time to critique the game later....say july 14'ish time frame ;P

[Mithros]

I wonder if they'll ever put in the Incarnate Epic AT :D

I might have stuck around if they would have done that. Kheldians didn't do it for me. Maybe an Incarnate would have been more along the lines of what I really wanted.
Still, I was out before the mission architect stuff came in, so I don't know what it is about. I do know, though, that when my current subscription to WoW is up, I am done, and I would go back and look at CoH again before I would go back to WoW.

But it looks like I will be playing CO, so it's all really a moot point with me. Even if CO turns out to be something less than what I hope for, it should still keep me occupied/interested enough to keep me playing until DCUO comes out, so I could go there if CO doesn't suit me (and nothing I have seen so far is a complete turn-off, so I have no reason to believe that CO won't hold my interest for quite a while).

Trailer has statesman all evil'ed out so to speak...Kinda makes me sad.
Evil Statesman or Tyrant? Tyrant was the evil version of Statesman from Praetorian earth, if you remember. Or have you not been playing long enough to have met the Praetorians yet?

[sunset dreamer]

I also wish that CO would have started out with villains. It seems like a lot to add them later...

Not at all.

All they need to do (and what CoX should have done) is add missions that are villanous (kidnapping instead of saving, stealing instead of retrieving or thwarting, vandalising, causing chaos etc etc) and voila you can be a villain!

No need to recreate the wheel!

[Tank]

the Preatorian arcs were my favorite in CoH/V. so much fun.

[_Pax_]

1-22 - the hungry climb to the base powers you will need to really play your character including SOs. Not so fun.
Meh. You don't need SOs to play.

My Dark/Regen scrapper went with IOs, elvel 15's, until he was level 32. Any that were higher than level 15 were either (a) bought amazingly cheap on the Market, or (b) were drops, and "why not use 'em". At 32, I switched to level 35 IO's ... and when I unsubscribed? I was stillusing 'em.

My Mastermind was already in his 30's when IOs hit hte scene, so I went straight to level 35 IOs. And stuck with them until level 47, when I upgraded to level 50's. The exceptions were only three powers - his Summons. I scrounged for the highest-levelled IOs I could get, and "Franken-slotted" with IOs from several different sets, in order to maximise their raw Enhancement values. He did just fine with mostly 35's, all the way to the level cap (I didn't finish upgrading - including jumping to Sets on all powers - until after hitting the level cap).

39-50 - rampant, repetitive boredom. There is nothing new to look forward to. There is nothing to do once you get there.
Nothing new? APP or PPPs only start at 41. Teh RWZ only starts at 35, as does Cimerora. The Imperius TF is awesome, and generally is best suited for 45' to 50's (though a few SKed 35-44 characters is doable, at least for some ATs; I'd never risk it on an MM, though). Heck, my MM ding'd 50 on that TF.

[Kinestron]

MMORPG.com:

Will Going Rogue introduce new missions to the game, or simply allow hero characters to experience villain content and vice-versa?

Matt Miller:

Lots of new missions. Lots. It's not just "make your Mastermind into a Hero" and call it a day. What is the path your Mastermind takes? What is the trigger that got them to consider a line between good and evil? What made them cross that line?


I like the emphasis on "lots" of new missions.

Good. Don't hate it now so much.

CO will still get top billing but now I'm considering buying this expansion. Just a few more features and you have me sold...unless it is too close a release date to Champions.

[AkumaMishima]

A lot more significant than -just- letting heroes and villains switch sides at any rate.

we won't know till they actually release info instead of vague speculation created almost a year ago :)

[Vox_Doom]

so it looks like cox is on its last leg. the one thing they allways said they would never do they are doing.

Actually they've talked about the possibility of Going Rogue quite a lot, no idea where you've got the idea that they said they'd never do it.

[Tank]

well whichever way, boxed copy = free month and all current updates hopefully then i'll give coh/v a go again.

[Grazer]

The million dollar question is this:

Do you HAVE to make a toon from lvl 1 in the expansion?

Can you use an existing toon in either CoH or CoV of any lvl and turn them bad/good?

Will an existing toon get auto'ed down to lvl 1 then you run the new content?


So many unknowns here. But one thing is for sure. If you cannot take an existing toon you have in CoX and turn them and you HAVE to make a new toon to do this................the outcry will be deafining!

[Nightweaver]

Meh. You don't need SOs to play.


You are correct.

IO's are more powerful than SO's. With the introduction of IOs, SOs could be skipped. However in general, the point still stands which is that you spend the first 22 levels gathering your base powers and fighting to be able to either a) afford or b) craft the IOs that will be necessary for your powers to function at competitive levels with the challenges of the game. 1-22 is still, for the most part, miserable.


Nothing new? APP or PPPs only start at 41. Teh RWZ only starts at 35, as does Cimerora. The Imperius TF is awesome, and generally is best suited for 45' to 50's (though a few SKed 35-44 characters is doable, at least for some ATs; I'd never risk it on an MM, though). Heck, my MM ding'd 50 on that TF.

And all of these zones offer ... what?

The same randomly generated mob clusters in the same half-dozen maps with the same 2-4 mission types over and over and over. At best, the game links those randomly generated missions into a story arc for a while, but that rapidly comes to a close. There is no incentive to repeat things except to grind for levels, and no incentive to seek levels because once you hit 50, you're done. One of the worst failures of CoX was the fact that EVERY encounter is randomly generated. EVERY AV fights like every other. There are no unique fights to look forward to and no new tactics to learn.

Again, Positron and his team have a great deal of respect from me for doing the best they could with an engine that was painted into a corner. However the fact is that after a certain point, everything in CoH is repetition of the exact same things you did twenty levels earlier. Where games like WoW prevail is in their ability to create scripted encounters and fights that actually require you do think beyond the same strategies you used in the last fight.

I'm very glad you enjoyed what the game could be twisted about to offer considering the disaster of its design, but we certainly have to acknowledge that CoX is NOT the future of hero MMO: It is the prototype whose time has come and gone.

-Nightweaver

[Ravenstein]

I still enjoy City of Heroes and do plan on getting this expansion when it comes out. Well, if it seems worth it. All I can say is I don't want to pay a lot extra for what might only be a normal update plus a couple things. Now if they add enough stuff like they did with CoV, then I would get it.

And I am talking the important stuff, like more powersets and costume items!

[quincy_archer]

I still enjoy City of Heroes and do plan on getting this expansion when it comes out. Well, if it seems worth it. All I can say is I don't want to pay a lot extra for what might only be a normal update plus a couple things. Now if they add enough stuff like they did with CoV, then I would get it.

And I am talking the important stuff, like more powersets and costume items!

Atm Power customization, demon summoning, and dual pistols are being speculated on.

The only thing we know atm is that it will take place in Praetoria (opening hopefully 3+ new zones) and that there will be "lots of new missions." The optimistic in me goes Squeee and is ready to buy it right now... :p.

[Ravenstein]

Atm Power customization, demon summoning, and dual pistols are being speculated on.

The only thing we know atm is that it will take place in Praetoria (opening hopefully 3+ new zones) and that there will be "lots of new missions." The optimistic in me goes Squeee and is ready to buy it right now... :p.

Oh yeah, me too. I will be waiting to make my final decision after more info then random speculation and the wonderfully vague description so far offered by Paragon. But right now it leans towards 'defiantly get'.

[Robota]

You honestly think its worth it Raven? Its only going to more of the same missions

[Evil_Ghost_Artist]

i want a hal 9000 eye on my front door. and a speaker that will tranlate my voice to it's voice.

[quincy_archer]

You honestly think its worth it Raven? Its only going to more of the same missions

Which really could be said the same of ANY MMO. You just change the outward schematics to make it look different. :p IJS....

[Ravenstein]

You honestly think its worth it Raven? Its only going to more of the same missions

Same could be said for any shooter where you keep killing the same things with different skins over the same maps.

Likewise for empire builders where you keep building the same empire over and over.

Or for MMOs, where you keep running the same kind of quests to kill the same things with different textures and name spellings over and over. Do you really think Champions will be any different? I have tried the beta; it is not.

Until we get to the point where we have live GMs overseeing EVERYTHING, such will be the case with virtually any game.

[Kinestron]

You honestly think its worth it Raven? Its only going to more of the same missions

I just quoted MMORPG.com a page back where Posi says there will be "lots" of new missions. It is not just taking a villain and playing in Paragon. Unless you mean missions really have nothing new to offer as far as the mechanics of their completion are concerned. On that point I would agree.

Anyways, I would say I'm more interested in Champions release than I am of any expansion for CoH.

[LurkerMax]

The appeal is going to be that in ADDITION to letting heroes and villains switch sides there's going to be an entirely NEW set of zones to support the “Neutral” areas.

It seems most people are missing the idea that the Going Rogue expansion is going to be like adding another "faction" to the game potentially as significant and big as adding CoV was to the game. We have City of Heroes and City of Villains - Going Rogue could have easily been called "City of Neutrals" because it'll stand as its own "City" separate from the original two.

But Sweden isn't a city, its a country.

P.S.: I couldn't resist

[quincy_archer]

Same could be said for any shooter where you keep killing the same things with different skins over the same maps.

Likewise for empire builders where you keep building the same empire over and over.

Or for MMOs, where you keep running the same kind of quests to kill the same things with different textures and name spellings over and over. Do you really think Champions will be any different? I have tried the beta; it is not.

Until we get to the point where we have live GMs overseeing EVERYTHING, such will be the case with virtually any game.

This. It is only a matter of time before a playerbase demolishes any content that the devs put up. And once it reaches that point it becomes literally impossible for the devs to put up quality content at a speed to keep the playerbase content. The only game that looks to be the exception is Kotor (and I will be more than happy to try to demolish the content) .

[Superior]

If this was announced last year along with the Architect interface, COX would of been saved. This new content is on the verge of release of two very prominent and well talked about superhero MMOs. I have to admit that I am still very interested in COX now, finally and possibly they can keep me for 3 months at a time.

[Kerrina]

It should be noted that Issue 15 (Anniversary) is hitting the test server for open beta next week.

It should also be noted that Going Rogue is slated to coincide with Issue 16. And judging by the fact that, since NCSoft acquired Coh, the Dev team has more than tripled from it's original size; this will be a massive expansion. Filled with new content.

How can I say that so flatly and honestly? Since the Dev team exploded in size the content stream hasn't increased at all. In fact between issue 12 and 13 it seemed to have almost stopped. Why? Because all (or most) of the Develoipers got swallowed up in working on the new expansion.

Positron hinted at both Demon Summoning and Akimbo Pistols during the 5th Anniversary Event. According to the press release the two new signature characters are Maelstrom (A Dual Pistols wielding hero gone rogue) and Desdemona (a Demon Summoning Villain redeemed).

There are hints at possible power customization between the Dev team's cryptic (hah! Pun!) comments about it being impossible under the former management team and Desdemona's fireball turning from blue to white to red. Though that's speculation.

There is also word from a former Developer that the new pack will include 50+ new costume sets (Head to toe) though that might also be rumor mill.

New content and Zones for characters to level from 1-50.

And for those who burn through the Developer Content, there's always the Architect missions to run.

It should also be noted that the Mission Architect is a GUI for use in creating missions. Not just for the players, but the Devs as well. This will make it substantially easier and -faster- for the Dev team to crank out more content in the future.

So. I think it's safe to say that even with the looming games on the horizon: City's got some kick left.

-Rachel-

[badbal]

Stuff...

Less Hints/Hopes/Speculation and more facts.

A paid XPac needs to be BIG, Paragon Studios promo (ie Confirmed Facts) fell insanely short of anything describing an xpac. Because we all know how "New Missions" and "New Zones" really turn out in CoX.

And imo, CoV was an extremely weak expansion, can you say copy-paste with a bit of filler?

As a side note, i believe MM's will get a demo pet powerset, and Pistols will FINALLY become a powerset after a bajillion years of requests. So i have some faith that they wont completely drop the ball.

[Nerfherder]

But Sweden isn't a city, its a country.

P.S.: I couldn't resist

Well, Sweden has a lower head count than New York, so I'm not sure we should be allowed to call ourselves a country anymore. We're also way beyond neutral nowadays, more like Indifferent. In fact, I'm willing to sell it to the highest bidder. The citizens of Sweden won't object (at least not so anyone else can hear it).

[Tank]

meh wrong thread

[AkumaMishima]

It should be noted that Issue 15 (Anniversary) is hitting the test server for open beta next week.

It should also be noted that Going Rogue is slated to coincide with Issue 16. And judging by the fact that, since NCSoft acquired Coh, the Dev team has more than tripled from it's original size; this will be a massive expansion. Filled with new content.

How can I say that so flatly and honestly? Since the Dev team exploded in size the content stream hasn't increased at all. In fact between issue 12 and 13 it seemed to have almost stopped. Why? Because all (or most) of the Develoipers got swallowed up in working on the new expansion.

I'm curious, why would you be excited about paying more for content that should have been in i13-i15? You seem to agree with this sentiment when you state content has almost stopped.

Personally, I'd agree that i13 was fluff aside from the new powersets, i14 was a one trick pony, and i15 is shaping up to be paper thin considering it consists of two TFs and minor changes to MA. If these issues were more substantial I wouldn't feel like they've been holding back update content (or at least tying up resources that could have gone into updates) and I'd at least consider spending *extra* money for genuinely *extra* content.

[Evil_Ghost_Artist]

thousands of lurkers in this thread...........hello devs!

[jedite1000]

since CO is going to be released im not really interested in rogue
plus i dont think it will be much different exept for good become evil n vice verser