PvP

[MUR]

Is there going to be PvP in this game? Will PvP spill out into all areas of the game or will it be confined to a few zones and arena maps? Will players be able to play their ANs against other heroes and heroes against ANs?

[Dargarth]

Well we already know there will be an "underground" arena. I would imagine this will carry over to a few of the other zones as well. I do not think the point of the game is for heroes to be battling heroes in the streets of Millennium City while the villains stand by and watch (though Foxbat would probably like that allot). :)

[elf8bliss]

They got to have some kind of PVP. The idea of an mmo is for the players to establish themselves and their supergroups to become apart of the world, and not just rely on pve to entertain us This is why they need a supervillian character creation at the beginning or at least a expansion soon afterwards.

[wright4tw]

i thought i read there would be a pvp arena.

[Flying_Carcass]

Aye, hope there's PvP, hope it's fun, and hope they've got multiple game types (y'know, get some capture-the-flag or node capturing going)

[Raindog]

I hope they either design with PvP in mind or not do it at all. Shoe horning it in later was a good try but had all sorts of problems.

[Vandal]

I hope they either design with PvP in mind or not do it at all. Shoe horning it in later was a good try but had all sorts of problems.

QFT. I'd really like to see the game designed from the ground up with an eye to PVP. As much as some might scoff at the following three letters being WoW.. but I think there's a lot to be learned at how much FUN world PVP can be, if it's done properly yanno?

[Saikyo-RyuHatman]

QFT. I'd really like to see the game designed from the ground up with an eye to PVP. As much as some might scoff at the following three letters being WoW.. but I think there's a lot to be learned at how much FUN world PVP can be, if it's done properly yanno?

I think they should integrate PvP strategies as part of a PvP tutorial, so everyone begins on the same page and can contribute in developing even more advanced PvP strategies.

[Helbender]

CoH launched with no PvP whatsoever. Since it was my first MMO that was fine, but I'm an experienced MMO player now with several titles under my belt. I demand more from my games, and I'm not alone.

We need PvP from the get go, and I don't mean meaningless arena battles or dueling.

We need PvP servers and PvE servers so players have a choice.

On PvP servers, we need PvP that isn't limited to a few battlegrounds. We need to mix it up in the streets, sometimes without warning. The danger of incidental PvP adds a real sense of danger to games, and many players are hooked on the high it gives them.

Another reason for incidental PvP is that you can learn to predict a game's AI, and once you do there are no more surprises. You can't always predict where the other players are or what they will do.

In summary, players have grown to expect meaningful PvP. Do not disappoint them.

[Rhyder]

Pvp for this game would be awesome IMO

As for PVP,PVE servers I think there should definetly be those 2 differant types of servers, seeing as there are also a lot of people who do not like to do PVP, which would set some people aside or w/e if there was just one server with a mix of both, as I will also bring up RP servers, I am sure people would want a seperate server for that too. So if they don't want to be on a RP server and do not like PVP go to a PVE server if thats your choice. Also going on again combining types of servers and what not, if you like RP AND PVP go to a RP-PVP server if there is that type on the games release day.

[Kitty-Eater]

One of the best things going for it, imo, is including PvP right from the get-go rather than introducing it later on and having the problem of some powers/abilities being much better than others and not being able to adjust them. That alone will give Champions an edge over CoX.

[MUR]

I think that PvP should be allowed in all zones but delineated to task oriented affairs. You have banks, government buildings, statues etc., where the villains plan an attack to steal cash or kidnap someone and the heroes are called in to defend. On the flipside, heroes could come to villain controlled areas and take the cash or victim back.

I think an arena is a great idea but I would like to see a dueling system. So and so is talking crap, you challenge him or her to a duel, you fight it out in the street in front of everyone.

I know there will be some aspect of PvP but, as was said previously, I hope that it is as much a dynamic of the game as PvE.

[lotus]

They better add PvP from the get go versus pasting it in like 2 years after development. Even if you have to have separate servers for this it needs to be added.

City of Heroes did a bad bad job at the PvP system and I hope they learned their lesson from it.

No one played in the Arena's
No one played in the War Zone's

The only thing I liked from the City of Heroes PvP system was the fact every one was on equal level footing for the most part.

HOPEFULLY HOPEFULLY HOPEFULLY they Balance the fights for ONE VS ONE not TWO VS TWO
if the game is balanced for One vs One The rest of the fights will be balanced out as well.

Getting into a fight against a Tanker in City of Heros while your a defender is not fair.

[Saikyo-RyuHatman]

Getting into a fight against a Tanker in City of Heros while your a defender is not fair.
Nor was it supposed to be. Due to the customization this game will supposedly have, there might be more balance this time around.

Also, lol Shakunetsu Hadoken.

[MUR]

They better add PvP from the get go versus pasting it in like 2 years after development. Even if you have to have separate servers for this it needs to be added.

City of Heroes did a bad bad job at the PvP system and I hope they learned their lesson from it.

No one played in the Arena's
No one played in the War Zone's

The only thing I liked from the City of Heroes PvP system was the fact every one was on equal level footing for the most part.

HOPEFULLY HOPEFULLY HOPEFULLY they Balance the fights for ONE VS ONE not TWO VS TWO
if the game is balanced for One vs One The rest of the fights will be balanced out as well.

Getting into a fight against a Tanker in City of Heros while your a defender is not fair.

I hope they give individuals the ability to empower themselves to force the need for a group to gang up on them. Player 1 develops a doomsday weapon after hours of work and forces the necessity of a super team to take him or her down. They could even make it so that the game responds to the use of a doomsday weapon and provides the opposing team NPCs (cops, other super heroes etc) to take down the empowered villain.

[Fixer]

That'd be so good.

[HeroJoe]

Not a fan of pervasive PvP and not likely to play in a game where it is hard to get away from. On the other hand if player villains could set up storylines for player heroes, or vice versa, I think that would be great.

[Saikyo-RyuHatman]

That'd be so good.

characters

[Hhussk]

Personally, I would like to see PvP as the norm. Here is what I mean.

I feel like it should be anytime, anywhere. Of course, this assumes that player can be heroes or villians. Sometimes, as we know from comics, heroes can fight heroes...in the meantime, the city gets rocked.

[Star]

It is a sad given that PvP will be included. This will unfortunately take away resources from developing for the majority of the playerbase to appease the 5-9% of any given MMO playerbase that regularly participates in PvP.

As PvP is a MMO minority (in spite of the extreme vocal-ness of said minority) I hope the development resources are kept to a bare minimum so Dev Time can be spent more towards things the greater part of the playerbase will actually put to use continuously. This includes PvP from the start vs. added on to a PvE gamestyle; not allowing PvP modifications to effect the PvE gameplay (a mistake made with COX); and no failed attempts at the ever-elusive "MMO-PvP balance."

[MUR]

It is a sad given that PvP will be included. This will unfortunately take away resources from developing for the majority of the playerbase to appease the 5-9% of any given MMO playerbase that regularly participates in PvP.

As PvP is a MMO minority (in spite of the extreme vocal-ness of said minority) I hope the development resources are kept to a bare minimum so Dev Time can be spent more towards things the greater part of the playerbase will actually put to use continuously. This includes PvP from the start vs. added on to a PvE gamestyle; not allowing PvP modifications to effect the PvE gameplay (a mistake made with COX); and no failed attempts at the ever-elusive "MMO-PvP balance."

I would imagine that that 5-9% is closer to another, higher arbitrary percentage of 95.9% who have at least attempted to PvP, enjoyed the option and then decided whether or not they were part of yet another arbitrary 43.4% who could not think fast enough to play a game against living, thinking opponents or, just lacked the nerves.

[Star]

I would imagine that that 5-9% is closer to another, higher arbitrary percentage of 95.9% who have at least attempted to PvP, enjoyed the option and then decided whether or not they were part of yet another arbitrary 43.4% who could not think fast enough to play a game against living, thinking opponents or, just lacked the nerves.

Not quite.

It is the generalized average value released from industry studies based on production team research of their own playerbases for active MMOs.

I'm sure each team determines their own methods of datamining to reach the results they submit.

[Hhussk]

It is a sad given that PvP will be included. This will unfortunately take away resources from developing for the majority of the playerbase to appease the 5-9% of any given MMO playerbase that regularly participates in PvP.

As PvP is a MMO minority (in spite of the extreme vocal-ness of said minority) I hope the development resources are kept to a bare minimum so Dev Time can be spent more towards things the greater part of the playerbase will actually put to use continuously. This includes PvP from the start vs. added on to a PvE gamestyle; not allowing PvP modifications to effect the PvE gameplay (a mistake made with COX); and no failed attempts at the ever-elusive "MMO-PvP balance."

I don't look at it like that.

If there were a way to have my "superhero" have an "arch-nemisis" who was another player, I'd be all for it. I can imagine it now. The villian and I squaring off, trying to lure each other into the other's trap and so on. Perhaps your view of PvP is that it has to take place in the span of a couple minutes with a lot of chaos going on everywhere. Well, to be fair, I've seen methods implemented from various games that actually make PvP more of a unique situation, based on justice systems.

[MUR]

Not quite.

It is the generalized average value released from industry studies based on production team research of their own playerbases for active MMOs.

I'm sure each team determines their own methods of datamining to reach the results they submit.

So, you are actually telling me that the majority of players don't actually try it out when it is freely available with limited losses? SHENANEGANS!!!

Oh, give me the numbers or a link to where I can find these numbers of which you speak.

[MUR]

I don't look at it like that.

If there were a way to have my "superhero" have an "arch-nemisis" who was another player, I'd be all for it. I can imagine it now. The villian and I squaring off, trying to lure each other into the other's trap and so on. Perhaps your view of PvP is that it has to take place in the span of a couple minutes with a lot of chaos going on everywhere. Well, to be fair, I've seen methods implemented from various games that actually make PvP more of a unique situation, based on justice systems.

YES! That would be totally sweet. If they gave you an option to randomly select someone else's AN or, when you create your hero after villain players are implemented, you select an AN from a list of real players, the fight is on from the beginning.

[Genosaurer]

As PvP is a MMO minority (in spite of the extreme vocal-ness of said minority) I hope the development resources are kept to a bare minimum so Dev Time can be spent more towards things the greater part of the playerbase will actually put to use continuously. This includes PvP from the start vs. added on to a PvE gamestyle; not allowing PvP modifications to effect the PvE gameplay (a mistake made with COX); and no failed attempts at the ever-elusive "MMO-PvP balance."

I absolutely disagree. PvP frequently illuminates exploits and inbalances that wouldn't normally be obvious to developers (since NPCs don't complain), and is usually positive for game balance in PvE as well because it helps to keep everyone on an even footing.

I'll also second the request for a link to your numbers - when you say "generalized average value" are you counting games like Hello Kitty Online (http://www.hellokittyonline.com/us/)? :rolleyes:

[Doc-Ankh]

Lets face facts: players either like PvP or they don't. I think it is pretty obvious now to any CoH players that the eventual introduction of player-villains and PvP wasn't as good a fit as if it had been a consideration from the game's foundation.

Just having PvP and PvE servers solves the issue of forcing PvP upon players who want nothing to do with it. And even on those PvE servers, pocket instances of PvP (such as arenas) will serve the purpose of scratching the itch of players who prefer PvE, but like a tiny dash of consensual PvP on occasion.

There is no need to turn this into a "PKrs R HATERS!" vs "play to CRUSH" cliche. A game at this stage of development should hopefully be prepared to serve both sides of their customer base, and I have full faith that Cryptic can do it.

Just my 2¢.

[Lawyer]

I just hope

[Stormbringer]

i'd like to see pvp integrated from the start.

it lends games a lot of variety and fun and can be integrated without being forced upon anyone.

furthermore, i think the devs do well to integrate pvp into missions and stories from the getgo. by doing so they'd get the best of both worlds - the narrative elements of a pve storyline and the challenge and excitement of a pvp fight.

crossing my fingers for this...

[Darkling]

Lets face facts: players either like PvP or they don't. I think it is pretty obvious now to any CoH players that the eventual introduction of player-villains and PvP wasn't as good a fit as if it had been a consideration from the game's foundation.

Just having PvP and PvE servers solves the issue of forcing PvP upon players who want nothing to do with it. And even on those PvE servers, pocket instances of PvP (such as arenas) will serve the purpose of scratching the itch of players who prefer PvE, but like a tiny dash of consensual PvP on occasion.

There is no need to turn this into a "PKrs R HATERS!" vs "play to CRUSH" cliche. A game at this stage of development should hopefully be prepared to serve both sides of their customer base, and I have full faith that Cryptic can do it.

Just my 2¢.

Agreed. I sometimes enjoy PvP, if it well done, but if it isn't, its a total disaster. We'll have to hope for the best (and servers that are PvE only as well as PvP servers is a wonderful idea. Let folks get their feet wet before the onslaught :-) )

[Overthrower]

Yea,I really hope for pvp,if this game translates the rpg well enough then pvp will be an easy and balanced part of the game. Thats one of the best things about Champions is that you can easily have players play villain chars as well as heroes.
But yea,it should definitely have RP and PVP servers

[KidCondor]

personally.. and this is from someone who loves to RP.. AND PvP...

I hate splitting folks up like this.. "Official RP Server" the "Official PvP" server... I get to meet some Great folks in CoX.. those that Pvp, those that RP.. those that fly around naked in a pink cape yelling for justice... of course I get those down my street as well.. but anyway..

just my two cents.. yes definately have PvP.. NO dont make it pervasive... and dont pslit for differnet servers.

[Genosaurer]

There are a lot of design decisions in World of Warcraft that I disagree with, but the division of realms into Normal, RP, PvP, and RP-PvP was a very smart move.

[Syphonics]

I don't want split RP and PvP servers just so i can gank them while RPing.


Happy?

[suspicion]

If CO goes with PvP, they would be wise to follow Blizzard's lead from WOW. (I know, is heresy to say such here, but if there is anything that WOW does right, it's PvP.)

On regular servers, don't let PvP bleed into PvE areas. It just makes play difficult for those who'd just rather not engage in PvP. However, this wouldn't negate the possibility of a mutual-accept "duel" function. And there would be comic book precedent. Remember all of the Superman-Flash races from the Silver Age? And I don't think you could name anyone in the Marvel Universe that Wolverine hasn't fought in one way or another? Or Frank Castle, for that matter. And last year, the Hulk was ready to square off against any hero he could find.

And borrow the "flagged / not-flagged" status from WOW. If you're just there to get from point A to point B, no problem. In the words of Static, "Don't start none, won't be none." But if you take a swipe at a passing flagged villain, then welcome to the fight and watch out.

The best PvP in WOW is still in the instances like Arathi and Warsong, mainly because every player is well aware of why they're there. They're not there to travel or complete a quest. They're in to fight, but also to accomplish goals for their side.

Just my two cents.

And as for the question of should there be PvP servers or RP servers? Sure. RP servers especially, because for the most part, RP players are a lot more pleasant to experience in in-game chat. I'd much rather read a bunch of in-character chatter than a half-dozen Chuck Norris jokes, anyday.

[SokMunki]

The best PvP in WOW is still in the instances like Arathi and Warsong, mainly because every player is well aware of why they're there. They're not there to travel or complete a quest. They're in to fight, but also to accomplish goals for their side.
Agreed.

I'm not sure where the 5-9% statistic came from, but this chart from the Daedalus Project (http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/001612.php?page=2) gives “Competition” a 5.5% as a primary motivation. There's other charts on there about server selection preferences, etc. I find his sources and methods pretty reasonable.

Anyhow, I'm still not an avid PvPer, but I tried it in City of Heroes and I'm currently on a PvP server on WoW (that's where all my wife's co-workers/guildies are). My overall, long and blathery PvP thoughts:

FUN

1) Having a fair fight is fun. If you're in a team of 5 people level 35-40, you should fight a team of 5 people level 35-40. If you're fighting one-on-one, you should have a reasonable chance of winning based on game mechanics (gear, class, etc.). If you lose, it's because you screwed up or just got outplayed, not because little Timmy spent $120 on eBay for Armor of the Scintillating Cuttlefish.

2) Having a goal is fun. Rob/Protect the bank. Set/Defuse the bombs. Capture the flag. Etc.

3) Having rewards is fun. People are motivated by rewards, so if you want people to PvP you need to give them something they can use as a reward. At the very least something they can point to and say "lookit."

NOT FUN

4) Unfair fights are unfun. A level 60 jumping a level 20 is lame. (Now, if you want an unfair fight, OK, sure, go ahead and duel someone 10 levels your superior.)

5) PvP as a PvE obstacle is unfun. If I'm trying to achieve PvE goals then PvP activity is usually an annoyance rather than a challenge.

6) PvP as a vehicle to get the best PvE-useful stuff is unfun... unless you really like PvP, of course. (You'll probably like it more if items 1 and 2 are followed.) Basically, you need to strike a balance between 3 and 6 here.

7) Conversely, unrewarded PvP is, in the long term, unfun. Unless you really like PvP, of course.

Now, I realize some people actually like items 4 and 5, and I think WoW's handling of PvP servers is pretty good for this. Utterly optional PvP in starting zones, open PvP in higher-level zones, and if you don't want to deal with it, play on a non-PvP server.

I also realize you can't ever fully realize item 1; sometimes you're just going to have to toss a level 35 against a level 38, and sometimes your power selections are just not a good match against your opponent. There's a point where you just have to say “good enough.”

City of Heroes screwed up by focusing on open, optional PvP zones without making sure you'd get a fair fight if you go into the zone and not giving you any real PvP rewards for victories. PvP was typically something you had to just work around to get a PvE-useful reward: Shivans, Warheads, etc. (Or badges, which seemed to cause way more angst than they deserved.)

World of Warcraft does it much better, near as I can tell (there's a lot I don't know about how non-PvP servers operate). My only complaint is that PvP rewards outstrip PvE rewards, so you either PvP or are laughed at for having sub-par lewt (item 6). I also dislike getting jumped by level ?? all the time... but then I'm on a PvP server, so that's my issue, not the game's.

Now I'm in the mood to head into Warsong. Wish me luck.

[LuLou]

If CO goes with PvP, they would be wise to follow Blizzard's lead from WOW. (I know, is heresy to say such here, but if there is anything that WOW does right, it's PvP.)

And borrow the "flagged / not-flagged" status from WOW. If you're just there to get from point A to point B, no problem. In the words of Static, "Don't start none, won't be none." But if you take a swipe at a passing flagged villain, then welcome to the fight and watch out.

.

Regardless of anything else, this should be part of any PvP system. If Super-Spider is rushing to meet Lois-Jane in his secret ID of Kenny Clarker, he doesn't have time to waste fighting Lady Roidrage. On the other hand, if she just dumped him for patriotic billionaire Roger the Bruce, he'd be more than willing to go a few rounds.

[suspicion]

City of Heroes screwed up by focusing on open, optional PvP zones without making sure you'd get a fair fight ...

And that's another thing.

You don't handle the level balance issue of PvP by artificially evening everyone to the same level. What's the point? I've been playing in the PvE areas, honing my skills against AI'd villains, so I'm going to want to see how well my actual PvE character does in combat with another real player of a similar level.

Instead, you take another note from WoW and establish PvP instances based on level brackets. 10-19, 20-29 and so on. Sure, you're going to have the same issues as WoW with an imbalance between a 22 and a 27 (for instance), but that is much better than taking a level 60 and a level 15 and having them both fight in a generic level 30 power set. For the level 60, they'll be powered under their usual capabilities. For the 15, they'll be overwhelmed with the greater-than-normal firepower and probably lose in spite of it.

[Raindog]

I've always been a fan of zone or instanced based PvP over pervasive PvP. Its just not much fun to be ganked while traveling or off on a quest.

[Vox_Populi]

I hope they either design with PvP in mind or not do it at all. Shoe horning it in later was a good try but had all sorts of problems.
This can't be said enough.

[Lost]

I really dont like the mentality pkers have, granted I m huge war/siege fan , but Pvp is a dead subject a niche market. Every pvp title announced since 2002 has died quietly. Shadowbane is the only true balanced pvp game out there and hardly anyone plays it.

I think they should put in the lowest form of pvp , arena and duels for launch. Develop the AI , encounters, storyline , and zones. PVP servers dont work , dont get me wrong , pvp is fine distraction , but pvp / pk was developed in Korea because developers lack the content to feed the masses.

They created conflict (pvp/pk) to replace well done development. Even at its peak it was a niche market, being 80k to 120k in Shadowbane , and some of the other hardcore servers. I d rather they focus on developing the pve , I m 30 years old , if I want to pvp , I d pick a title that is develop especially for that reason , Shadowbane , DAOC , RF Online .. etc.

[Stormbringer]

seems like if they mixed the zones and made pvp opt-in, then no one would really be bothered by it.

people who want to pvp simply opt into it and are flagged for pvp functionality.

people who don't want to , simply don't opt in and are not elligible for pvp combat in mixed zones.

[Wolverine]

I absolutely disagree. PvP frequently illuminates exploits and inbalances that wouldn't normally be obvious to developers (since NPCs don't complain), and is usually positive for game balance in PvE as well because it helps to keep everyone on an even footing.

I'll also second the request for a link to your numbers - when you say "generalized average value" are you counting games like Hello Kitty Online (http://www.hellokittyonline.com/us/)? :rolleyes:

Dude I dunno what your talkin about Hellokitty Online is the shiznite!

[Wolverine]

If CO goes with PvP, they would be wise to follow Blizzard's lead from WOW. (I know, is heresy to say such here, but if there is anything that WOW does right, it's PvP.)

On regular servers, don't let PvP bleed into PvE areas. It just makes play difficult for those who'd just rather not engage in PvP. However, this wouldn't negate the possibility of a mutual-accept "duel" function. And there would be comic book precedent. Remember all of the Superman-Flash races from the Silver Age? And I don't think you could name anyone in the Marvel Universe that Wolverine hasn't fought in one way or another? Or Frank Castle, for that matter. And last year, the Hulk was ready to square off against any hero he could find.

And borrow the "flagged / not-flagged" status from WOW. If you're just there to get from point A to point B, no problem. In the words of Static, "Don't start none, won't be none." But if you take a swipe at a passing flagged villain, then welcome to the fight and watch out.

The best PvP in WOW is still in the instances like Arathi and Warsong, mainly because every player is well aware of why they're there. They're not there to travel or complete a quest. They're in to fight, but also to accomplish goals for their side.

Just my two cents.

And as for the question of should there be PvP servers or RP servers? Sure. RP servers especially, because for the most part, RP players are a lot more pleasant to experience in in-game chat. I'd much rather read a bunch of in-character chatter than a half-dozen Chuck Norris jokes, anyday.

Well considering class balancing in WoW litteraly doesnt exist...I have to disagree WoW does not do PVP well at all. In fact I would have to say they are horrible at it. To be honest I put my faith in this Dev team to pull this game off and do it well. I dont really think anyone needs to be coppying anything from WoW. That games playerbase still gives me nightmares. http://www.somethingawful.com/d/news/warcraft-frontline.php?page=1 (proof that 10 million people CAN BE WRONG)

[Raindog]

PvP is low on my list of desires as well. It can be fun occasionally, but it always seems to come packaged with balancing issues (with the tweaks to correct them sometimes having negative effects on the PvE game) and squabling. Then again, if the game is more action oriented and combat was more skill focused that about stat supperiority, then it may be interesting.

[Greylurker]

Random anytime anywhere PVP just dosn't fit thematically into the game. A Superhero game should have Superhero style PVP

Thinking in terms of comic books you would have 2 kinds of PVP in a superhero game

Hero vs. Villain
or
Hero vs. Hero due to a misunderstanding

Assuming Villains as playable is eventually implimented PVP should be by consent. People will no doubt have a Friend list so when Villains appear they should also add a Nemisis List. A List of Heroes/Villains who have consented to PVP with you during the game.

So if the heroic Psyguard runs into Dr. Destructo one of the players sends a Nemisis request to the other. If the other player agrees then those two characters will be able to PVP each other anytime they should run into each other.


Hero vs. Hero misunderstanding could be a result of conflicting Mission Chains. Say 2 missions are designed to cross over each other. If there is a Player on each chain and they happen to encounter each other, we get a Classic Misunderstanding and the two fight it out.

[MUR]

I think that there should be random, anytime PvP. There should be places where it is less detrimental to the person initiating the conflict. If you are a villain and start beating on a hero in the middle of a law abiding zone, you get totally mobbed by any uniformed and costumed NPC in the area. The same goes for the hero in a lawless area. If they implement a system where bad guys have to walk disguised in law abiding streets and vice versus for heroes, I think that PvP would end up being something designated to purely neutral areas or involve epic, comic book style attempts to conquer the world or destroy a villain stronghold.

[MUR]

Random anytime anywhere PVP just dosn't fit thematically into the game. A Superhero game should have Superhero style PVP

Thinking in terms of comic books you would have 2 kinds of PVP in a superhero game

Hero vs. Villain
or
Hero vs. Hero due to a misunderstanding

Assuming Villains as playable is eventually implimented PVP should be by consent. People will no doubt have a Friend list so when Villains appear they should also add a Nemisis List. A List of Heroes/Villains who have consented to PVP with you during the game.

So if the heroic Psyguard runs into Dr. Destructo one of the players sends a Nemisis request to the other. If the other player agrees then those two characters will be able to PVP each other anytime they should run into each other.


Hero vs. Hero misunderstanding could be a result of conflicting Mission Chains. Say 2 missions are designed to cross over each other. If there is a Player on each chain and they happen to encounter each other, we get a Classic Misunderstanding and the two fight it out.

Yeah, I agree with you with the crossing story arcs and given players the choice to challenge the other hero or villain who may be fudging up your plan to rescue the girl or steal the giant ruby for your death ray.

[Kias]

I hope they either design with PvP in mind or not do it at all. Shoe horning it in later was a good try but had all sorts of problems.

This goes with any game set up. I enjoy PvP but I believe a game can be fun without it, but either way the focus needs to be 100% decided on from the get go r the game suffers in the long run.

[Ashgan]

I really really don't appreciate when people just fling PvP away as its the minority and who cares :mad:
I'm a huge PvE player but I have great fun doing PvP. I also do not wish to see a gankfest at the same time I would like to see some system of PvP anywhere with limitations of course as in you can't just randomly start fighting with someone, some kind of flag system or just some way to prevent it happening on accident either, yes I tried wow for a bit and I remember hitting a button and by acciden't attacking a really high level orc by accident of course this flagged me and well you know what happened.

[MUR]

I really really don't appreciate when people just fling PvP away as its the minority and who cares :mad:
I'm a huge PvE player but I have great fun doing PvP. I also do not wish to see a gankfest at the same time I would like to see some system of PvP anywhere with limitations of course as in you can't just randomly start fighting with someone, some kind of flag system or just some way to prevent it happening on accident either, yes I tried wow for a bit and I remember hitting a button and by acciden't attacking a really high level orc by accident of course this flagged me and well you know what happened.

I would like to see what kind of "minority" they are talking about. Is that "minority" the people who primarily log in to PvP or, is it everyone who enjoys the freedom of being able to fight another living, breathing individual and periodically dabbles in it? The main thing is that they NEED to include PvP if only to provide a greater suspension of disbelief. Even if I didn't like to match my wits and twitch with another person, I would find the game somewhat half-assed and boring if the choice to do so didn't exist. They should make as much of the game open to free choice as possible (destructible environment, faction affiliation, style of heroics etc).

[Vlos]

I would like to see what kind of "minority" they are talking about. Is that "minority" the people who primarily log in to PvP or, is it everyone who enjoys the freedom of being able to fight another living, breathing individual and periodically dabbles in it? The main thing is that they NEED to include PvP if only to provide a greater suspension of disbelief. Even if I didn't like to match my wits and twitch with another person, I would find the game somewhat half-assed and boring if the choice to do so didn't exist. They should make as much of the game open to free choice as possible (destructible environment, faction affiliation, style of heroics etc).
Agreed. I've always been a PvE man whenever I play an MMO, but you can't always be doing it. Sometimes you gotta dust off a few punks before you call it a day.

[MUR]

Agreed. I've always been a PvE man whenever I play an MMO, but you can't always be doing it. Sometimes you gotta dust off a few punks before you call it a day.

Its part of a full spectrum game. PvE plays into most of what every PvPer does anyways, not the other way around. You need to build your toon up and you can only do that by playing against the environment. After that, your ability to win is determined by how well you build your toon and how well you play your build. The problem with putting PvP in as an after thought is that it becomes completely separated from PvE. A PvP build, typically, is fairly different from a PvE build and that kind of sucks. Started from scratch, you end up with a system where the same build that kicks ass against the machine can do so against a player.

In a MUD I used to play and code for, if you went 'outlaw' you were able to PvP. If you were an 'outlaw' and you stole from someone and were caught, they could attack you even though they weren't 'outlaws'. You could also be attacked if you were in their profession's area of the game. Maybe they could set it up so that you could decide from the get go if you were an 'outlaw' or the hero equivalent of 'outlaw' . . . maybe 'vigilante'. You then would have a bunch of 'outlaws' and 'vigilantes' running around that could attack each other on site. If that location happened to be a hero held area, then other heroes could attack the 'outlaw'. If that location was a villain held area, other villains could attack the 'vigilante'. By doing this they could make it so that you have several choices to participate.

[Thanoslug]

I'm a big fan of PvP. I've been playing DAoC for 6 years now because it has been the best PvP game I've found to date. In WoW I play on a PvP server, in EQ I played on a PvP server...

All that said, unless this game is going to include player villains then I don't see how anytime/anywhere PvP fits thematically in a game about superheroes. You are heroes, you are supposed to be working together to stop the bad guys not mixing it up in the streets while the villains go rob a bank. Yes comics often have stories in which heroes fight each other due to a misunderstanding but it is not the norm.

PvP between heroes, I feel, should be limited to arena type combat and, possibly, something mission based that pits heroes against each other in one of those comic book misunderstanding type settings that ends with the heroes working together to complete the mission.

[MUR]

I'm a big fan of PvP. I've been playing DAoC for 6 years now because it has been the best PvP game I've found to date. In WoW I play on a PvP server, in EQ I played on a PvP server...

All that said, unless this game is going to include player villains then I don't see how anytime/anywhere PvP fits thematically in a game about superheroes. You are heroes, you are supposed to be working together to stop the bad guys not mixing it up in the streets while the villains go rob a bank. Yes comics often have stories in which heroes fight each other due to a misunderstanding but it is not the norm.

PvP between heroes, I feel, should be limited to arena type combat and, possibly, something mission based that pits heroes against each other in one of those comic book misunderstanding type settings that ends with the heroes working together to complete the mission.

You can be a hero and an outlaw at the same time. There are plenty of 'heroes' that are bad guys to the law. The Punisher is a good example of this. I think it should be the choice of anywhere, anytime PvP. If you become a vigilante or violate the law while doing your duties as a hero, you become attackable. That way, the way you play the game determines whether or not you are a 'bad guy' whether you are a villain or not.

[SoulCatcher]

PVP while not my cup of tea needs to be planned into the game. Early PVP I suspect will be like some sort of arena or danger room situation. Once they add Villains then i suspect we will have true PVP zones or intergration. I would prefer that each faction have its own few safe zones (where you can PVE if you choose) but the large majority should be PVP available. IE you flag yourself PVP or your actions do.

Yeah a Danger room where you have to fight bad guys and PVP at the same time cool.

[MUR]

PVP while not my cup of tea needs to be planned into the game. Early PVP I suspect will be like some sort of arena or danger room situation. Once they add Villains then i suspect we will have true PVP zones or intergration. I would prefer that each faction have its own few safe zones (where you can PVE if you choose) but the large majority should be PVP available. IE you flag yourself PVP or your actions do.

Yeah a Danger room where you have to fight bad guys and PVP at the same time cool.

Danger Room idea is nice. Every Super Team could eventually buy a Danger Room which would act as a friendly place for the team to practice. You could fight NPCs, other teammates or both at the same time. It all falls into 'options'. You should be able to choose/flag yourself for PvP, fight in an arena, go to free-for-all zones and practice from your own base.

[Lionheart]

I've dabbled in PvP, but am not really interested in it. Frankly (personal opinion only), I have no problem with PvP being in game, but hope that it never has any affect at all on my gameplay.

Open world PvP on all servers would be the worst case, even with flags. Heroes and villains walking past each other, totalling ignoring each other, would be very immersion-breaking. For a game world that sounds like it can be quite immersive, this would be a bad thing.

The idea of PvP zones or PvP servers is far more appealing to me; that way, those enjoy PvP can do so to their hearts' content, and those who want nothing to do with it can play their game oblivious to the existence of PvP. The best of both worlds for both worlds.

[Tiger]

PvP....hmmm....if they do put it in they should not change the PvE powers. Villians invading the city would be cool, but villians ganking n00bs in the lowbie zone would be a bad idea.

[Tiger]

That would be a cool improvment on the arena.;)

Danger Room idea is nice. Every Super Team could eventually buy a Danger Room which would act as a friendly place for the team to practice. You could fight NPCs, other teammates or both at the same time. It all falls into 'options'. You should be able to choose/flag yourself for PvP, fight in an arena, go to free-for-all zones and practice from your own base.

[Possessed]

I've dabbled in PvP, but am not really interested in it. Frankly (personal opinion only), I have no problem with PvP being in game, but hope that it never has any affect at all on my gameplay.

Open world PvP on all servers would be the worst case, even with flags. Heroes and villains walking past each other, totalling ignoring each other, would be very immersion-breaking. For a game world that sounds like it can be quite immersive, this would be a bad thing.

The idea of PvP zones or PvP servers is far more appealing to me; that way, those enjoy PvP can do so to their hearts' content, and those who want nothing to do with it can play their game oblivious to the existence of PvP. The best of both worlds for both worlds.

This is how I feel as well. I've only dabbled in PvP (mostly due to sis giving me one of those evil glares when I even brought up the possibility of it with her characters :eek:), but even on an RP server in WoW, I ended up dealing with it a couple of times. My experiences have been quite mixed.

[gtuffli]

We are exploring various combinations and possibilities for PvP from arena to open world to instanced. Nothing is nailed down at this point, but several scenarios are being examined.

The combat system has been designed from the ground up with PvP in mind. For every question - travel powers, mez durations, and so on - we have tried to incorporate a consideration of how PvP would be affected.

I do not expect that we will be able to anticipate or ward against every possible pitfall, but I do think that this approach will make for a significantly better PvP experience than we were able to deliver in the past.

[Stormbringer]

We are exploring various combinations and possibilities for PvP from arena to open world to instanced. Nothing is nailed down at this point, but several scenarios are being examined.

The combat system has been designed from the ground up with PvP in mind. For every question - travel powers, mez durations, and so on - we have tried to incorporate a consideration of how PvP would be affected.

I do not expect that we will be able to anticipate or ward against every possible pitfall, but I do think that this approach will make for a significantly better PvP experience than we were able to deliver in the past.

SAWEET!!!

:D

[SokMunki]

The combat system has been designed from the ground up with PvP in mind. For every question - travel powers, mez durations, and so on - we have tried to incorporate a consideration of how PvP would be affected.
Travel Powers were always the bugaboo to me. How do you handle capture-the-flag scenarios with superspeeders? Or a duel between a superspeeding martial artist and a flying blaster? I don't envy you folks.
.

[gtuffli]

Travel Powers were always the bugaboo to me. How do you handle capture-the-flag scenarios with superspeeders? Or a duel between a superspeeding martial artist and a flying blaster? I don't envy you folks.
.

It makes things...interesting. :-)

[Vox_Populi]

Travel Powers were always the bugaboo to me. How do you handle capture-the-flag scenarios with superspeeders? Or a duel between a superspeeding martial artist and a flying blaster? I don't envy you folks.
What I would do is limit people to their travel powers' "combat speed" during PvP, but have a "speed boost" button they can occasionally use to fly/run faster or jump/tp farther.

[Foo]

We are exploring various combinations and possibilities for PvP from arena to open world to instanced. Nothing is nailed down at this point, but several scenarios are being examined.

The combat system has been designed from the ground up with PvP in mind. For every question - travel powers, mez durations, and so on - we have tried to incorporate a consideration of how PvP would be affected.

I do not expect that we will be able to anticipate or ward against every possible pitfall, but I do think that this approach will make for a significantly better PvP experience than we were able to deliver in the past.

If you do me only one favour, please make it this: Do not use Taunt as a forced-targeting mechanic in PvP or PvE. Make taunting, if you must have it, a debuff of some sort.

Pleasepleaseplease. Treat NPCs and PCs as though they have more sense than to be magically locked onto a certain target because it has a foul mouth.

[archermoo]

My only hope for PvP is that if the do implement it in the game that they don't make it required for any PvE content. Preferably with any rewards gained in PvP only enhancing the PvP aspect.

[voltaire]

Agreed. Not a hardcore PvP'er here....ok I really suck at it. Better if the game is designed into it versus being thrown into it as an after thought. CoX is a good example...but I would definatly support seperate PvP and PvE servers strictly for the differences in play styles.

I would start something on both....mostly because sometimes I am in the mood and other times I am not.

[blackulaa]

Looking forward to PVP and the challenges it creates for this genre. You say what about the speedsters, I say what about the immovable object standing on the flag return structure ;)

[OniDaimyo]

Whatever you do with PvP do not force people into it. That will lose more people than you gain. For instance my gf hates PvP. I could never get her to play Champs online if she had no choice but to PvP. I probably wouldn't play ethier. I like being able to PvP when I want to, not when someone else decides.

[Fayde]

We are exploring various combinations and possibilities for PvP from arena to open world to instanced. Nothing is nailed down at this point, but several scenarios are being examined.

I think "instanced" PvP is a must... it's one of the things that draws soooo many people to WoW in my own experiences. You gotta problem with me? BAM! DUEL! Not, "ok, lets take this to the Arena... sign up... wait for everyone that needs to join.... oh, Ted's getting a drink, it's gonna be a minute... " If you guys can do instanced PvP, it would take Superhero genre MMOs to another level.

It also addresses real comic culture. There's been numerous times that heroes have fought other heroes that were on the same team b/c one mouthed off to the other.... Wolverine and Cyclops anyone? Bringing this reality to the game with instanced PvP would greatly increase the playability as well as the RP aspect that *I* personally look forward to. Keep up the good work!

[OniDaimyo]

Yeah but instanced PvP has a problem with "premades". If you have no buddies to PvP with you get owned and lose all the time. That is no fun at all.

[SokMunki]

I think "instanced" PvP is a must... it's one of the things that draws soooo many people to WoW in my own experiences. You gotta problem with me? BAM! DUEL! Not, "ok, lets take this to the Arena... sign up... wait for everyone that needs to join.... oh, Ted's getting a drink, it's gonna be a minute... " If you guys can do instanced PvP, it would take Superhero genre MMOs to another level.
I think you're confusing "instanced" with "instant." An Instance is a location that's generated for a specific person or group that other people can't just wander into. In WoW, Warsong's an instance, as is Ragefire Chasm. Thousand Needles isn't an instance, it's a zone. In City of Heroes, the Arena fighting areas are instanced.

Mind you, I'm OK with instant PvP (although I'd prefer it created an instance that the people get whisked off to). ;)

[gtuffli]

Whatever you do with PvP do not force people into it. That will lose more people than you gain. For instance my gf hates PvP. I could never get her to play Champs online if she had no choice but to PvP. I probably wouldn't play ethier. I like being able to PvP when I want to, not when someone else decides.

You will never be forced into participating in PvP.

[KillerWhale]

You will never be forced into participating in PvP.


Thats good news BUT is it optimal to participate in both Pve and PvP from a character progession standpoint?

[Mr_Koto]

PvP needs to be launched with the game not added later on. The PvP needs to have some incentive to actually do PvP like some sort of reward for defeating your opponent. I hope that whatever PvP is added certain powers do not overpower others in PvP it needs to be balanced to have fun.

[Possessed]

You will never be forced into participating in PvP.
Cool, cool. I don't mind testing the waters here and there, but I bring my bad FPS habits, been playing a lot of Team Fortress 2 lately, along when I do.

[gtuffli]

Thats good news BUT is it optimal to participate in both Pve and PvP from a character progession standpoint?

The goal is that you should be able to participate in the type of gameplay that you personally enjoy, and to progress at a comparable rate. We may or may not be able to accomplish this, but that's what we are shooting for.


PvP needs to be launched with the game not added later on. The PvP needs to have some incentive to actually do PvP like some sort of reward for defeating your opponent. I hope that whatever PvP is added certain powers do not overpower others in PvP it needs to be balanced to have fun.

PvP is planned for launch. The intent is for PvP to have a comprehensive reward structure.

[Candlestick]

Awesome

1
2
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[OniDaimyo]

But will those rewards be so great that if you don't do PvP your missing out? LIke in WoW the people who don't PvP don't get the cool Season 3 weapons and such.

[Test-Rat]

Weill if the game is balanced ot the point where they impiment rewards,

You can just start pvping and get them too.

If you are missing out because youd on't want to participate, then you shouldn't complain.

[Mr_Koto]

The goal is that you should be able to participate in the type of gameplay that you personally enjoy, and to progress at a comparable rate. We may or may not be able to accomplish this, but that's what we are shooting for.




PvP is planned for launch. The intent is for PvP to have a comprehensive reward structure.

Sounds good i am looking forward to hearing more.

[OniDaimyo]

Weill if the game is balanced ot the point where they impiment rewards,

You can just start pvping and get them too.

If you are missing out because youd on't want to participate, then you shouldn't complain.

Wrong. It should not be required to take part in PvP to get anything good. Yes, they should complain. You should not be forced at any time to do PvP or be forced to "miss out". That is poor game planning.

[Tiger]

The goal is that you should be able to participate in the type of gameplay that you personally enjoy, and to progress at a comparable rate. We may or may not be able to accomplish this, but that's what we are shooting for.
PvP is planned for launch. The intent is for PvP to have a comprehensive reward structure.

:eek: comprehensive rewards for PvP?!? Wow!

[Iron_Tiger]

:eek: comprehensive rewards for PvP?!? Wow!

Might not meant what you think it does. It will probably be rewards purchased with rep or some thing like that.

[Test-Rat]

Wrong. It should not be required to take part in PvP to get anything good. Yes, they should complain. You should not be forced at any time to do PvP or be forced to "miss out". That is poor game planning.

Life doesn't work like that.

There will be both nice things for PVP and PVE.

Anyone who creates a toon in Champions Online, has equal opportunity to get the Nice Shinies (OOOOH SHINY SHINY!) that come from PVE. They can earn them by doing the required PVE content.Anyone also has the Opportunity to have the nice shinies (My SHINY) from pvp. To get these you must participate in the PVP content.

You get your nice things by doing the PVE content. Other Get thier Nice things by doing the PVP content.

Some will get both because they are just that awesome.

Just because YOU don't want others to have things does meant they shouldn't exist. The devs give equal opportunity for everyone to get whats avaialble in thier game.

Besides Heretic already confiirmed real PVP rewards are in development. Its too late.

[OniDaimyo]

Life doesn't work like that.

There will be both nice things for PVP and PVE.

Anyone who creates a toon in Champions Online, has equal opportunity to get the Nice Shinies (OOOOH SHINY SHINY!) that come from PVE. They can earn them by doing the required PVE content.

Anyone also has the Opportunity to have the nice shinies (My SHINY) from pvp. To get these you must participate in the PVP content.

You get your nice things by doing the PVE content. Other Get thier Nice things by doing the PVP content.

Some will get both because they are just that awesome.

Just because YOU don't want others to have things does meant they shouldn't exist. The devs give equal opportunity for everyone to get whats avaialble in thier game.

Besides Heretic already confiirmed real PVP rewards are in development. Its too late.

Interesting how you think life applies to a video game. :rolleyes:

So because *I* don't want something it doesnt need to happen but because you do it does happen? Nice logic there. And no it's not too late. Is the game on the shelves? Not too late. Things DO change in development. You obviously haven't been around many MMOs or video games. Things DO get changed or left out even if they say it will be in the game. I also never said there should be no PvP rewards. I said the PvP rewards should not be greater than those for PvE. Please read what I say.

[gtuffli]

The intent is for PvP rewards to be comparable to PvE rewards.

[TheDart]

They could always have PvP and PvE reward us with a single type of 'points' that allow us to purchase goodies from a single list.

Just a thought.

[HaD3k]

The intent is for PvP rewards to be comparable to PvE rewards.

Awesome-sauce.

[OniDaimyo]

The intent is for PvP rewards to be comparable to PvE rewards.

Thats good to hear. There should be no advantage over doing one vs the other.

[SokMunki]

The intent is for PvP rewards to be comparable to PvE rewards.

:eek:

Fascinating.

I'm going to be really interested to see how this pans out.

[Vox_Populi]

Fascinating.

I'm going to be really interested to see how this pans out.
Me too. Rewarding PvP usually results in players just taking turns "farming" eachother.

[Omnimus]

First off, very glad to hear that PvP is a consideration from the start and that there will be some form of reward attached to it. Second,...

The combat system has been designed from the ground up with PvP in mind. For every question - travel powers, mez durations, and so on - we have tried to incorporate a consideration of how PvP would be affected.

...I'm somewhat concerned over how mez effects will be handled in the game. The binary nature of mez effects in CoX makes control-type powers either very powerful (vs someone without mez protection) or very underpowered (vs someone with mez protection). I'm certain that this is one of the considerations underway, and look forward to following this in development!

[Aceldama]

I'm a huge proponent of PvP and am extremely glad the devs have it in mind at the outset.

Even though PvP in CoX is completely cracked, I still love to do it. The problem is that no one else does.

Glad to hear there are rewards and incentives to PvP!

[MUR]

The goal is that you should be able to participate in the type of gameplay that you personally enjoy, and to progress at a comparable rate. We may or may not be able to accomplish this, but that's what we are shooting for.




PvP is planned for launch. The intent is for PvP to have a comprehensive reward structure.

This is good news. Here are the summarized things that I would like to see with Champions Online PvP.

* The choice to PvP anywhere using a flag system (you choose to be a vigilante if you are a hero or an outlaw if you are a villain and the choice allows other vigilantes or outlaws to attack you on site).

* A large number of arena maps that incorporate a variety of different PvP elements. Instead of generic "capture the flag" or "secure the node" type PvP events, have something like "kidnap the mayor's daughter" or "rob the bank". This would be for villain vs hero arena. Hero vs hero could involve Super Team challenges which take place within Super Team training chambers similar to the X-Men Danger Room and could involve NPC interference or time trials to see who can take down the arch-villain first.

* PvP rewards involving a few, unique items, trophies taken from opponents who have chosen to flag themselves for PvP via the vigilante/outlaw system, cash via a bounty system for bringing in the vigilante or outlaw and lastly, XP/Points rewarding the winner with loss of XP/Points for the loser to combat "PvP farming".

* Crossing story arcs that force villains to fight heroes and heroes to get into a conflict with each other based on misunderstandings. Separate from the "vigilante/outlaw" system, you log in and sign on to a board that includes other villains and heroes playing that day, who have also signed on. After signing the board and starting a mission, if another person is doing the same mission arc and they have signed the board, you cross paths and the accomplishment of the mission depends on whether or not you are able to beat the other player.

[Stormbringer]

The goal is that you should be able to participate in the type of gameplay that you personally enjoy, and to progress at a comparable rate. We may or may not be able to accomplish this, but that's what we are shooting for.




PvP is planned for launch. The intent is for PvP to have a comprehensive reward structure.

i'm really psyched to hear that this stuff is being taken seriously and integrated into the foundations of gameplay.

can't freakin' wait!

[MUR]

i'm really psyched to hear that this stuff is being taken seriously and integrated into the foundations of gameplay.

can't freakin' wait!

If they do it right, I have a feeling that a lot of people from multiple MMOs will be moving over to this game. They will end up with entire, cross-gaming guilds switching over. I think a large amount of effort should be placed on making the balance of PvP centered on player reaction instead of power damage and effect.

[Mr_Koto]

Very nice ideas MUR a flag system i would love to have so we arent restricted to where we can PvP.

I would like to see Capture the flag maps and so on in arena, CoX does not have this in arena and the only thing you can do is defeat your opponent. It doesnt leave much of a challenge and capture the flag would see different tactics used.

Cash via a bounty system is pretty good idea. It is currently used in EvE Online players can put a bounty upon another player and if you kill that player you get the bounty.

[MUR]

Very nice ideas MUR a flag system i would love to have so we arent restricted to where we can PvP.

I would like to see Capture the flag maps and so on in arena, CoX does not have this in arena and the only thing you can do is defeat your opponent. It doesnt leave much of a challenge and capture the flag would see different tactics used.

Cash via a bounty system is pretty good idea. It is currently used in EvE Online players can put a bounty upon another player and if you kill that player you get the bounty.

It would also be entertaining for people who are just walking around doing their missions to see someone break out a fireball and set another player on fire. I think that there should be a few zones where it is a free-for-all, Warburg style. There could be multiple bounty systems that require different things to happen to the person on the hit list. One for the goody two shoes heroes where, if they capture the outlaw or vigilante they are after, the person gets thrown in jail and has to pay their way out. One for the villain who basically kills the bounty and brings in a trophy. They could even set up a difference between privately funded bounties and bounties put out by the legal system.

[General_Erko]

I have done the CoX pvp thing. I have had some fun with it.

What I would like to see is longer fights. Fights like the comic books show, rolling combat where you don't get squashed in 2 hits. :p

[MUR]

I have done the CoX pvp thing. I have had some fun with it.

What I would like to see is longer fights. Fights like the comic books show, rolling combat where you don't get squashed in 2 hits. :p

That and long chases, girls being nabbed to be used as a human shield, cars being thrown at the good guy, streets being set on fire. PvP in CO* that lasts two hits, happens the way it does because of an imbalance centered around team PvP that is exacerbated by a shoddy, shoehorned PvP system that should have been incorporated from the start. PvP in this game should be matched 1vs1 and the victor should win not because of what he or she is playing but, because of how well built their character is, how skilled they are with the build and the speed of their reaction time. 1vs1 should be as even of a match as 2vs2 and 5vs5.

[Stormbringer]

I have done the CoX pvp thing. I have had some fun with it.

What I would like to see is longer fights. Fights like the comic books show, rolling combat where you don't get squashed in 2 hits. :p

yeah, what he said.

i'd also like if if one could pvp without having to farm loot.

that whole IO thing pretty much did me in for COX pvp.

it just got to the point where i was doing stuff i didn't want to so i could do stuff i wanted to (and be competitive).

it just got to be too much work.

[MUR]

yeah, what he said.

i'd also like if if one could pvp without having to farm loot.

that whole IO thing pretty much did me in for COX pvp.

it just got to the point where i was doing stuff i didn't want to so i could do stuff i wanted to (and be competitive).

it just got to be too much work.

QFT

I think that 'rare' items shouldn't necessarily make you uber. If you spend 100 hours getting 1million in C O cash. You should be able to make yourself as powerful with that 1million as the next guy. What I mean by this is that, if you are the kind of character who builds gadgets, that 1million should allow you to build something as good as the next guy who makes gadgets. The potency of your weapons should be a matter of skill and knowledge on your part which, ultimately, will make the person who knows the most and is the most skilled win, no matter how much cash they spend on equipment.

I also think that if you win against someone, you should be able to take something from them. If they want to fight you with something uber that they either made or found in a rare drop, then they are risking losing that item. So, if you are fighting another player and find out that they have the Purple Ring of I win Button, you can run away, call up your friends and blanket party the guy into unconsciousness. Then, you can take the Purple Ring of I win Button. This would definitely make people who want to PvP think twice before running around with something coveted and focus its use on possibly building up an arsenal of regular items during PvE grind.

[Lionheart]

Very nice ideas MUR a flag system i would love to have so we arent restricted to where we can PvP..

MUR's ideas definitely have merit and are well thought out.

My personal preference would still be PvP zones or PvP servers so the PVE players won't have to be involved; a mix in the same areas where some are participating and some are not is very nonimmersive.

So my vote would be for either PvP-specific zones or PvP-specific servers. Or both, for that matter. On non-PvP servers, there could still be zones for those who like to dabble in PvP occasionally, but not in the open world environment.

[MUR]

It has been said many times before but, I would really like to see a cross server arena system that didn't force everyone to copy their toons over to the test server.

[JoeShmo]

This game needs PvP, or it will simply die out!!!

Good PvP at that!



I think we should get a poll going for a entirely FFA PVP server.......:D

[snobladeguy]

I really agree, PVP is essential. I hope Villains come out with the inital launch. and i hope the PvP is more like WoW than CoH. I've played both games and I love city of heroes, but I just wish i didnt have to go to PvP zones to engage in PvP. I want there to be Villains running around trying to rob banks, and i get a bonus for stopping them, or vise versa.

[JudasAce]

If PvP rewards = PvE rewards, I'll be max "level" in a day.

Whatever advancement system you use, if I can be rewarded under it by killing other players, it's going to be so abuseable that it's not even funny.

[MUR]

This game needs PvP, or it will simply die out!!!

Good PvP at that!



I think we should get a poll going for a entirely FFA PVP server.......:D

How well would that work? I think that, instead of having a server designated for PvP, like PvP is a dirty subject that should be kept separated from the rest of the game, they should just incorporate PvP seamlessly into the game. I keep harping up a flag system. You sign your name on a wall with blood or type your name into a bounty hunter's database and you are then allowed to fight other people who have done the same, anywhere. Mix that with PvP zones and instanced arena maps and you have all the PvP you need, on any server. If people have the choice to sign on to FFA PvP around others who decide not to, you end up with a game that gives everyone the freedom to focus on their desired priorities.

[MUR]

If PvP rewards = PvE rewards, I'll be max "level" in a day.

Whatever advancement system you use, if I can be rewarded under it by killing other players, it's going to be so abuseable that it's not even funny.

I think they should make PvP awards greater than PvE awards. At the same time, penalties for dying to another player should be proportional so that exploitation doesn't exist.

[Primus]

As long as there's some sort of separation, e.g. those of us who don't want to PvP or want to PvP when/where we want to are accomodated, it'll be fine.

My bigger concern is PvP vs. PvE balancing. I'm sick and tired of having my PvE experience nerfed because someone found a PvP exploit/FOTM that will never cross-over into PvE. Lot of talk from other MMO developers about how they'll make sure that balancing is done separately, and then the cross-over nerfs start. Maybe CO will be the first to get this right.

[SuperPheemy]

One thing that keeps popping into my head with all of this PvP discussion is the opening to Kingdom Come, where superbeings abound and are fighting almost for the sake of fighting. I think this makes for a rich environment to launch storylines which would be difficult to otherwise do. Say to do a "Kingdom Come" storyline in a PvP server, where due to the ever-present random violence, an outside agency tries to reign in all of the superbeings, causing friction, factionalization, and ultimately a climax that determines the fate of the PvP world (at least until the next big PvP storyline comes around).

But then again, I'm a big story and RP guy at heart. Endless fighting for the sake of fighting doesn't appeal to me. But being a part of an epic story where friends and foes start choosing sides, and facing off against each other... dude I'm all over that.

I don't know if it would work or not in a practical sense. I get the feeling that it would be really difficult (especially if the PvP characters simply choose to ignore the plot, and continue smashing each other).

[Lionheart]

I think they should make PvP awards greater than PvE awards. At the same time, penalties for dying to another player should be proportional so that exploitation doesn't exist.

And this is the single biggest reason for tension between people who like PvP and people who prefer PvE. Why on earth should PvP get better rewards? Please don't say because it takes more skill, because I haven't seen it yet. That varies from player to player. PvP is not the pinnacle of MMO play (nor is raiding, but that's another topic:) ).

If they keep things balanced for both playstyles, great. Note that I am not advocating greater rewards for PvE over PvP, because I don't think my playstyle is more important than yours, just different preferences.

I won't belittle your playstyle if you won't belittle mine.

[OniDaimyo]

PvP WON'T get better rewards. Heretic already said that the goal was to make both rewards equal. Why should one play style get better "loot" as it were than the other? It's not gonna happen.

[Lionheart]

How well would that work? I think that, instead of having a server designated for PvP, like PvP is a dirty subject that should be kept separated from the rest of the game, they should just incorporate PvP seamlessly into the game. I keep harping up a flag system. You sign your name on a wall with blood or type your name into a bounty hunter's database and you are then allowed to fight other people who have done the same, anywhere. Mix that with PvP zones and instanced arena maps and you have all the PvP you need, on any server. If people have the choice to sign on to FFA PvP around others who decide not to, you end up with a game that gives everyone the freedom to focus on their desired priorities.

It's funny, RPers want their own servers as a status symbol or special rules area (a positive for them), and PvPers act like having special servers for themselves is a punishment instead of a way to get the FFA PvP experience they want.

I've already stated a couple of times why mixing FFA PvP via flags into the PVE environment is less than optimal. Why force the PvP environment on everybody else? Why is it so important to make sure *everybody* has PvP shoved in their faces, whether they choose to participate (via flags) or not? I will never, ever understand this mindset.

[Longbow]

We are exploring various combinations and possibilities for PvP from arena to open world to instanced. Nothing is nailed down at this point, but several scenarios are being examined.

The combat system has been designed from the ground up with PvP in mind. For every question - travel powers, mez durations, and so on - we have tried to incorporate a consideration of how PvP would be affected.

I do not expect that we will be able to anticipate or ward against every possible pitfall, but I do think that this approach will make for a significantly better PvP experience than we were able to deliver in the past.

What about dealing with the usual problems with PvP (outside of the team based instances/sieges of course) of ganking and griefing. Balancing of powers is a moot point when the numbers are out of whack as far as the number of people go (or levels AND/OR people).

Its this kind of imbalance that drives people away from PvP (and PvP games) faster than anything else. WoW shamans being too good at pvp just makes people whine on the boards. Being griefed over and over again makes people hit "unsubscribe".

Of course, this might not be a bad thing in the long run for players, the game might go the Shadowbane route and be free to play after a year or two.

[Mr_Koto]

PvP- servers would be cool but the zones and arena across all servers should link up. If you list an arena match on one server you can fight people on other servers via the arena. For zones if you enter one zone you will also be fighting people who have entered the same zone on another server.

This is what i always thought they should have done with CoX it would increase zone activity. I don't know howw easy or hard this would be to do but it would be cool.

[Stormbringer]

It's funny, RPers want their own servers as a status symbol or special rules area (a positive for them), and PvPers act like having special servers for themselves is a punishment instead of a way to get the FFA PvP experience they want.

I've already stated a couple of times why mixing FFA PvP via flags into the PVE environment is less than optimal. Why force the PvP environment on everybody else? Why is it so important to make sure *everybody* has PvP shoved in their faces, whether they choose to participate (via flags) or not? I will never, ever understand this mindset.

i'm wondering if flags couldn't be implemented on a more flexible basis, however.

for example, you could flag yourself for pvp or pve at any point while you're playing the game.

for example, by logging in and flagging yourself for pvp you enable an invite window. if someone wants to fight you and you're flagged for pvp, they can challenge you to a fight. at this point you can either accept or decline.

sick of getting pvp invites? no problem. just flag yourself for pve and you won't get any challenges.

this would provide you with the flexibility to play the game you want whenever you want.

seems like if the pvp were kept relatively discrete and inobtrusive, it wouldn't really affect people pveing. so you could get everyone on the same server (without having players commit to pvp or pve servers ahead of time) without having them ****ing each other off.

[Bitt_Player]

The intent is for PvP rewards to be comparable to PvE rewards.

Are we to take this as meaning "Doing X in PvP or doing Y(which is of similar difficulty) in PvE will grant Reward Z", or "Doing A in PvP grants Reward B, while doing C in PvE grants Reward D, which is roughly as functional/desirable as Reward B"?

Did that make sense?

Anyway, if PvP is going to be open across all areas, some kind of system needs to be in place to keep people from being forced into it. Flags and dedicated PvP servers have both been suggested. I'd prefer flags, honestly, as that would mean I can get into a PvP match or two when I feel like it, without having to go through the process of transfering or copying characters onto the PvP server(s), but I can stay out of the fighting and just bust up critters if that's what kind of mood I'm in.

In other words, I don't care how PvP is implemented, so long as I have no one but myself to blame if Facebreak McSkullharm comes up behind me and spins my head a full 180 degrees while holding my shoulders in place.

[Jaran]

Well, y'know, in Game Informer they've said that so far, PvP will just be underground Arena fights, and it looks like you'll be doing mostly PvE.

While I understand why people are saying that PvP should be something that is available right off the bat, you have to take into account how much work they're doing and how it would be relevant at all to the game to have people running around fighting each other for no reason.

Most of the missions are all instanced, and having FFA PvP in the safe zones would be a tad silly...however, I wouldn't object to there being a server with FFA PvP for those people who just want to run around fighting human superheroes rather than their arch-nemesis or various other supervillains in their instanced missions.

But, seriously, if you're PvPcentric, you might want to find a game that suits you...not all games are meant to be all things to all people.

[Paradoxcontrol]

If there taking any inspiration from WoW, which they probably are (there's a reason its the most popular MMO right now you know.) then the PVP rewards will be just as good as something you get from PVE. Right now WoW has the Arena that gives you Tier sets that are just as good as the sets out of end game raids. Though the sets have more stats that help in that area of the game. So PVP rewards, while still really good, will do better in PVP then in PVE. But if you mix and match it, you can do just fine in both.

Though, you don't want to make PVP and PVE to different, and Blizzard is starting to realize this. For a while the difference between PVE and PVP gear was so huge that you couldn't take your T5 PVE gear in to a fight and win VS a guy with T5 PVP gear. So they are now putting ways to get gear for PVP from PVE, so that your not totally gimped in a fight.

If Cryptic does it right you can have the best of both worlds here. WoW is a great example, there PVP is fun and interesting, and there PVE is some of the best content seen in an MMO.

[Greylurker]

The thing to keep in mind about PVP is the nature ofthe Game itself.

In Warcraft you have 2 factions locked in a hostile but stable peace. Battles break out all over the place because that fits the nature of the game.

Champions is a Superhero game. PVP in a Superhero setting is usually Hero vs. VIllain

Villains are probably not going to be playable at launch but they are including a PVP hero vs hero arena system. So the mechanics for PVP are there right from the start (to quote Jack "if you don't have PVP from the start you can't add it later"). Assuming they do add playable villains down the road you can probably look at the Arena as being the testing ground for determining balance issues and once that is all worked out they can put out a Villain expansion and let things hit the fan.

[Xerross]

The intent is for PvP rewards to be comparable to PvE rewards.


Comparable should mean EQUAL. A lot of people don't like to PvP, so forcing them to PvP for certain rewards is not logival at all. I have not read this entire thread, but these are my thoughts on the subjects.

As an example (not my pet peeve, but a general with people in the world of CoX). Forcing people to PvP to get lets say, badges -- was not a smart move at all, to force people in a PvP to get badges, just stinks. I'd like to put my own opinion in saying that if PvP has its rewards, make them equal (even if a little bit different, then a PvE reward -- but keeping the same value as a PvE reward.)

I am not sure if anyone else agrees with that, but I just thought I'd throw my own opinion out there.

--Xerross

[Paradoxcontrol]

The thing to keep in mind about PVP is the nature ofthe Game itself.

In Warcraft you have 2 factions locked in a hostile but stable peace. Battles break out all over the place because that fits the nature of the game.

Champions is a Superhero game. PVP in a Superhero setting is usually Hero vs. VIllain

Villains are probably not going to be playable at launch but they are including a PVP hero vs hero arena system. So the mechanics for PVP are there right from the start (to quote Jack "if you don't have PVP from the start you can't add it later"). Assuming they do add playable villains down the road you can probably look at the Arena as being the testing ground for determining balance issues and once that is all worked out they can put out a Villain expansion and let things hit the fan.

Sure I can see your point, but as it is currently from what im reading, there is an underground ring where heros can pit each other in combat. There not fighting each other for conquest, or to end another hero, they do it for the same reasons a MMA fighter would. They fight to get better, they fight to learn new tacits from there fellow heros. Some heros might just like to fight, get down and skuffle with some of the best.

The PVP in Champions right now sounds much more contained, you probably wont be fighting in the world untill we have players playing Villains.

Comparable should mean EQUAL. A lot of people don't like to PvP, so forcing them to PvP for certain rewards is not logival at all. I have not read this entire thread, but these are my thoughts on the subjects.

As an example (not my pet peeve, but a general with people in the world of CoX). Forcing people to PvP to get lets say, badges -- was not a smart move at all, to force people in a PvP to get badges, just stinks. I'd like to put my own opinion in saying that if PvP has its rewards, make them equal (even if a little bit different, then a PvE reward -- but keeping the same value as a PvE reward.)

I am not sure if anyone else agrees with that, but I just thought I'd throw my own opinion out there.

--Xerross
The idea of them being Comparable is that you wont be gimped in PVE situations. They wont be THE BEST for PVE but you can still get by with what you got from PVP. You wont ever really see PVP Items be better then PVE items (hopefully). There not going to be replacing them either. Its likely that they will just be more tuned for PVP fights.

[thatsmystapler]

I love PvP. I hated it in CoX, but loved it in WoW. One thing as suggested before, HAVE PVP SERVERS!!! There is nothing better than being on a PvP server and being able to gank or be ganked at any time. It added a level of excitement to the game. There are nights I would be out questing, got ganked and then it ended up in a huge battle between their guild and mine. That was so much fun. I found the PvP aspect of a PvP server also brought about guild comraderie that you didn't see in non-PvP guilds as you were always watching one another's backs. And if you join the server, you're accepting that you are open to PvP.

Also in zone PVP, have goals/games. Capture the flag was fun and base defending, and massive PvE/PvP battles. I really enjoyed the PvP setup in WoW and would love to see it with superheroes.

Don't have any invisibility powers. Those suck no matter the game. Rogues and stalkers are always pains in the butt.

[OniDaimyo]

Rogues and stalkers are not a pain in the butt if you know how to handle them. Stalkers ain't nothing if they can't run away like the coward they are cause they got held. I say have invisibility powers but don't make them totally uber.

Besides from how the game sounds I don't think there will be the super backstab power. It will be more like they are invis and get off the first attack but it's not like a Stalker or Rogue from WoW.

[gtuffli]

I'm somewhat concerned over how mez effects will be handled in the game. The binary nature of mez effects in CoX makes control-type powers either very powerful (vs someone without mez protection) or very underpowered (vs someone with mez protection). I'm certain that this is one of the considerations underway, and look forward to following this in development!

We are painfully aware of the complications mez effects can have with regards to PvP, and have been taking this into consideration with our designs.


If PvP rewards = PvE rewards, I'll be max "level" in a day.

Whatever advancement system you use, if I can be rewarded under it by killing other players, it's going to be so abuseable that it's not even funny.

Addressing the various avenues for exploitation of the reward system - PvP or PvE - is a major consideration we take into account in our approach. We have come up with some approaches that I am so far pretty confident will manage this kind of problem effectively.

[Stormbringer]

We are painfully aware of the complications mez effects can have with regards to PvP, and have been taking this into consideration with our designs.




Addressing the various avenues for exploitation of the reward system - PvP or PvE - is a major consideration we take into account in our approach. We have come up with some approaches that I am so far pretty confident will manage this kind of problem effectively.

it sounds as if PVP is getting significant consideration from the dev team at this stage of the planning.

i'm very happy to hear it.

[Xerross]

The idea of them being Comparable is that you wont be gimped in PVE situations. They wont be THE BEST for PVE but you can still get by with what you got from PVP. You wont ever really see PVP Items be better then PVE items (hopefully). There not going to be replacing them either. Its likely that they will just be more tuned for PVP fights.

I realize that, I just wanted to state a fact that PvP rewards shouldn't really be something that you can't get in PvE, thus forcing people to engage in PvP ;) I am all for PvP, but I am also for equality. As an example of badges I just used because some people refused to have to enter a PvP zone (and yes get attacked) while trying to attain a simple exploration badge. That's a weak example of 'unbalanced' but, all rewards should be even, while still attainable without having to engage in PvP. I don't know if this makes any sense, but the whole point of PvP is Player vs Player, while a reward could be (if they implement them, like I suspect they will, some sort of 'Medals' instead of badges).

In a sense it kind of contradicts of what I said about PvP and badges, but if you aren't forced to fight random people for these 'Medals', you could find another way of rewarding these things (now sorry to use badges as an example! How about we just change it to the rewards to anything we may get from PvP matches.)

My basic point, don't make people PvP for certain rewards, let ALL rewards be attainable in PvE as well as PvP (if you like to PvP, there are a lot I know in CoX personally that despise it). Ex: If I want a temporary power that allows a chance for 'fireball', let me attain it within the PvE aspect, as well as being able to attain them in PvP if you so desire to do it that way.

[Lionheart]

I realize that, I just wanted to state a fact that PvP rewards shouldn't really be something that you can't get in PvE, thus forcing people to engage in PvP ;) I am all for PvP, but I am also for equality..

Why can't the reward be something different than you get in PVE? As long as it is *equivalent* it shouldn't matter whether it is the same as a PVE reward.

I've picked on MUR a bit because I'm not a PvPer and really wouldn't like it going on around me in a PVE area, but the idea that PvP, PVE, raiding, etc., should all get exactly the same rewards never entered my mind. I'm not at all against PvP, just PvP in PVE areas. It's okay for the rewards to be different, as long as we're not talking about "greater" or "better" than anybody elses.

Although, frankly, I've never been one to care if somebody has better gear than me. I play for the adventure and story, not loot, gear, or fame.

My personal take is that the different styles should have rewards geared more toward their playstyles (e.g., PvP rewards might give enhancements specific to PvP.)

[thatsmystapler]

Not to bring up WoW again, but they could set up a similiar system here where anyone can get the PvP rewards after a certain amount of time. Maybe PvPers get points they can buy special gear with. Six months later, that gear is available for purchase with whatever the in-game currency is by everyone. And then new PvP rewards are introduced. That way everyone gets a chance at the PvP rewards eventually, just through different means.

[Cryptic]

Hi my names Cryptic and i got a question about the game

Ive thought of these ideas for Pvp hope u like them and highly advice editors too add them cuz a mmorpg aint a game w/ out pvp and i agree there shuld b a super villian creation or something

Ok make the Pvp like this(if u culd i relle like pvp and it culd make the game better)
-Rpg-to lvl up ur character in towns/planets and stuff
-In each town/planet make a colluseum or arena of some sort for pvp
-Make Lvl Caps for players to vs
-Make Clan matches so u can ur frends can vs other superhero/villian clans
-alow gaining xp from killing/winning arena matches
-make matches such as
-1v1
-2v2
-3v3
-4v4
-and 5v5 for clan matches (or keep 4v4 to save some time)
-and of course every1s favorite a all time leader board to c who the top hero/villian is and a weekly leader board so every1 can b on the top at some point

Now for different Match types
-Capture the Flag (where u have 2 teams and u try to capture each others flag)
-Rescue the hostage (where 1 team [the hero's] have to rescue a hostage while the other team [villians] defend the hostage)
-Team Deathmatch (kill the other team till a certain death pt)(same for 1v1s and stuff just wit less ppl)
-King of the city/hill (see who can defend the city/hill for the longest set amount of time)
-demolition (heros defends building the vilians r trying to destroy
-how about a generals sports arena for some super powered sports

Others/Misc
-Owning ur own house
-getting furniture for ur house and stuff
-Clubs,Pools,Bars
-A Casino so u can gamble and stuff

Plz add this the game would kick ass (Credit to Cryptic plz)

add my Gt on xbox 360 Cryptic Rebirth and my Aim: Th3ycallm3shorty

[guyhey]

Travel Powers were always the bugaboo to me. How do you handle capture-the-flag scenarios with superspeeders? Or a duel between a superspeeding martial artist and a flying blaster? I don't envy you folks.
.

Capture the flag is easy, movement powers go away or are nerfed while you hold the flag.


As for the SS martial artist and flying blaster scenario. I always felt that COH should have had some of the lesser travel powers as an option for characters. Powers like wall walking, zip lines, and grappling hooks. I figured those would be movement powers you could get in the early levels and then eventually move up to the big boys like fly. If the big travel powers didn't fit your character then they're optional. My point is having wall walking and grappling hooks could even things up a bit against fliers. (Especially if you could hook the flier and bring him to the ground. ;) )

[MUR]

Why can't the reward be something different than you get in PVE? As long as it is *equivalent* it shouldn't matter whether it is the same as a PVE reward.

I've picked on MUR a bit because I'm not a PvPer and really wouldn't like it going on around me in a PVE area, but the idea that PvP, PVE, raiding, etc., should all get exactly the same rewards never entered my mind. I'm not at all against PvP, just PvP in PVE areas. It's okay for the rewards to be different, as long as we're not talking about "greater" or "better" than anybody elses.

Although, frankly, I've never been one to care if somebody has better gear than me. I play for the adventure and story, not loot, gear, or fame.

My personal take is that the different styles should have rewards geared more toward their playstyles (e.g., PvP rewards might give enhancements specific to PvP.)

I don't consider it picking on me. We are all being mature here and if there has been criticism, it has been constructive. I think I was misunderstood though.

I need to clarify on my comment that PvP should have greater rewards. What I meant was this:

* Fighting players should last more than 2 seconds. A player of equal skill and build will almost always be more difficult to beat than a boss conned monster. As was stated earlier, you shouldn't be able to two shot anyone . . . well, maybe if you have a doomsday weapon and hit them in the temple twice.

* Fighting a player does take more skill than killing the same mob over and over again IF the game is set up so that one archetype or chosen skill set doesn't result in someone being Highly Balance Challenged (HBC).

* Since it does take skill to win against a living, breathing opponent of equal character abilities, you should be rewarded for the time you spend winning in higher level combat. Your rewards should be mixed between XP/Points, cash found on the loser's body, cash from a bounty system and possibly, the ability to take an item from the person you defeat. All of this equals a larger reward for PvP that isn’t focused on leveling so much as a larger, holistic bonus with a heavy side of chance. Example: You fight a boss and it takes you 5 minutes to kill them. You get 10k XP and 5000 credits. It takes you 5 minutes to beat a player. You get 10k XP and the 8000 credits they had on them as well as a 10000 credit bounty someone placed on their heads and their coveted Purple Ring of I Win Button. They could have no bounty on their heads, no cash in their pockets and no Purple Ring of I Win Button, effectively making PvE more profitable for time spent.

* Rewards for PvP should be proportional to the risks. If you fail, you lose more XP/Points, reputation and possibly a single item from your inventory. Using the example above, the loser would be forfeiting their 8000 credits and Purple Ring of I Win Button.


Lionheart, I completely agree that you shouldn't be able to gain phat loot killing another player that you can't get through the rest of the game's content. I also think that they need to make PvP rewards "average" out as compared to PvE. If you luck out in PvP, you can end up with a greater reward but, in the long run, you end up benefiting on an average level as compared with those who stick primarily to PvE. I don't want you to be forced to PvP anymore than I am forced into it.

[MUR]

i'm wondering if flags couldn't be implemented on a more flexible basis, however.

for example, you could flag yourself for pvp or pve at any point while you're playing the game.

for example, by logging in and flagging yourself for pvp you enable an invite window. if someone wants to fight you and you're flagged for pvp, they can challenge you to a fight. at this point you can either accept or decline.

sick of getting pvp invites? no problem. just flag yourself for pve and you won't get any challenges.

this would provide you with the flexibility to play the game you want whenever you want.

seems like if the pvp were kept relatively discrete and inobtrusive, it wouldn't really affect people pveing. so you could get everyone on the same server (without having players commit to pvp or pve servers ahead of time) without having them ****ing each other off.

This is kind of what I am talking about. I don't mean that there would be random chaos everywhere between people who have flagged themselves for PvP. It would hinder the suspension of disbelief for two guys to start fighting in the middle of the city and not have a bunch of cops try to break up the fight. The ability, however, to walk up to a dude and challenge them in the street is a nice freedom to have.

[MUR]

Concerning PvP awards, I think that arena bouts should allow players to bet via legitimate bookies or, through illegitimate bookies for villains. Odds could be established from the number of wins a player has and the kind of weaponry they are bringing to the battle. You smack down 10 large and the odds are 5 to 1, you win 50 large if your man or woman brings in the win.

I understand that people could exploit this by fixing fights. It wouldn't be difficult to see that someone is not attacking and cause them to forfeit and all bets are off.

[ProcessedMeatMan]

This is kind of what I am talking about. I don't mean that there would be random chaos everywhere between people who have flagged themselves for PvP. It would hinder the suspension of disbelief for two guys to start fighting in the middle of the city and not have a bunch of cops try to break up the fight. The ability, however, to walk up to a dude and challenge them in the street is a nice freedom to have.


In all my years reading comics, I can't think of a single Hero vs Hero fight that had cops trying to break it up. Well, unless the Hulk was involved... and even then it wasn't the cops, it was the Army or something. ;)

[ProcessedMeatMan]

The intent is for PvP rewards to be comparable to PvE rewards.

Are there any plans for a PvP ranking system?

[MUR]

In all my years reading comics, I can't think of a single Hero vs Villain or Hero vs Hero fight that had cops trying to break it up. Well, unless the Hulk was involved... and even then it wasn't the cops, it was the Army or something. ;)

Cops is really just a cover term for anyone trying to stop the fight. This includes other, super powered heroes who would throw down to help out a hero fighting a villain etc. It would really end up being a function to keep people from ruining other, non-PvPers' days, while they are playing paddy-whack and Simon Sez :) in Mill City's Shopping District.

[SSpider]

Using the example above, the loser would be forfeiting their 8000 credits and Purple Ring of I Win Button.

I don't think players should lose item for PvP-ing. I'm all for getting gear through PvP, but definitely not from their inventories. If anything, developers should encourage participation in PvP, not adding a deterrence.

Well maybe if there's a lobby page before the fight commences and both parties agree to wager an item they have then that's fine.

[Cik]

i thought i read there would be a pvp arena.

Might as well not have PvP at all if its going to be restricted to a confined place that has no influence on the environment of surrounding players, game-play, risk/reward, community-driven events, story-line, etc.

[MUR]

I don't think players should lose item for PvP-ing. I'm all for getting gear through PvP, but definitely not from their inventories. If anything, developers should encourage participation in PvP, not adding a deterrence.

Well maybe if there's a lobby page before the fight commences and both parties agree to wager an item they have then that's fine.

Players could maintain some sense of honor and 'not' take the item or, a select group of PvP weapons or armor that forces people to gang up on the empowered individual would be the only things that could be taken. These items would be only used for PvP so, it wouldn't be as if PvPing could end up hindering the rest of the game for the vanquished player. An example could be Superman fighting Lex Luther while Lex has a Kryptonium dagger. With the help of the Justice League, Superman beats Lex. They take the dagger away from Lex so he can't totally overpower Superman again and must go either make another dagger, buy one or find one through PvP focused missions. It would be like a complicated game of capture the flag where the flag empowers the person who holds it.

[Cryptic]

Pvp shuld b a thing where ppl can test the stregnth of there char they spen so long lvlin up in the pve area's pvp shuld b put in certain area's on planets/towns to avoid confusin and there shuld b a reward but u shuldnt lose everything u have there shuld just b money rewards/rare gear the npc of arena will supply and there shuld b weekly tournies and stuff for rare items and stuff as well as clan matches and leader boards

[Lionheart]

Might as well not have PvP at all if its going to be restricted to a confined place that has no influence on the environment of surrounding players, game-play, risk/reward, community-driven events, story-line, etc.

Then there might as well not be PvP, because I don't want it affecting my gameplay or environment at all. Hence why there should be PvP servers so you can have it the way you want and we can have it the way we want. Everybody is happy! :)

If the idea of PvP servers makes folks think that it is "punishing" PvPers, then I would request to be punished with "special" PVE servers.

[Lionheart]

I don't consider it picking on me. We are all being mature here and if there has been criticism, it has been constructive. I think I was misunderstood though.

....

Lionheart, I completely agree that you shouldn't be able to gain phat loot killing another player that you can't get through the rest of the game's content. I also think that they need to make PvP rewards "average" out as compared to PvE. If you luck out in PvP, you can end up with a greater reward but, in the long run, you end up benefiting on an average level as compared with those who stick primarily to PvE. I don't want you to be forced to PvP anymore than I am forced into it.

Thanks for the clarification, MUR. I like your ideas overall. The only issues I have at all is with the open world concept, even with flags, for the reasons stated before.

And you did clarify here what you mean by rewards, which has no impact on the PVE side at all. Thank you. You concepts here are well thought out.

[Genosaurer]

Are there any plans for a PvP ranking system?

Hopefully so - and ideally something better thought out than the largely irrelevant Reputation system in City of Heroes.

[Cryptic]

i want my pvp to b based on how i lvl up in the pve area's so i can test my char's str in Pvp against other real players !