Pre-Beta sign up quiz?

[Siphaed]

A new MMO is announced and I've already noticed atleast one thread here of people begging to get into the game's Beta TEST (that's a key word we'll get to in a few), but they're begging just so they can get an early preview of the game. Over 1/3rd of recent MMO Beta testers are there for the sole purpose of getting to "play the game early, for free".

The key word of "Beta Testing" is that word I promised to get back to: Test. The whole point of being there is to test the game for any bugs, balancing issues, glitches, and any other problem that might effect the product when it's officially launched as a whole game. And, with such a large portion of Beta-ites not actually testing the game, they're not contributing to it's production either, thus could affect it's official launch. Some, instead of reporting bugs properly, tend to leak into the media that the game is busted (even though it's still in development) and that it's not worth the time or effort to bother with; this hurts the over-all community, but more so the product.

So, the solution: A 20-50 question questionaire that's in with the application process (that's beside the Dxdiag file and other information needed) that would be compiled of trick questions and such that could determin whether the person would truely test the game to aid in it's production, or use it as a free preview. Even using a feedback thing on the questionaire would be a good one too, for those that don't even use a simple feedback like that, their application could automatically be tossed out (think about it). The point is to have the previewers, players, and leakers out, and to keep the testers testing.



Edit: I've given an example basic format for this kind of questionaire/application in Post # 87, on page 9. Here's the link: http://forums.champions-online.com/showpost.php?p=21419&postcount=87 (not sure if it's only my screen, but the link is all black and I can't read the letters, so maybe nobody else can either, might need to just go directly to the post manually instead).

[Faeriemage]

I have to say that I agree with this concept. Just going to toss in my two cents. Nothing much to add other than that :)

[SomaMech]

Beta tests are also used to see if the game plays well, so any feedback is probably appreciated; positive or negative.

[TerraDraconis]

Not a bad point. Alot of people don't realize that beta testing is work on the part of the beta testers. It isn't just playing the game early.

[Deepbluesky]

I've personally tested my fair share of games, though I will admit a few times it was just to preview. Of all the games I've tested only one had a truly hard working community for bug crushing, and that was Matrix Online. I think that it may have been because of the dedicated fanbase behind the Matrix series that lead to that. While the idea of pre quiz may be good, it might actually be more effective to have people who actually play the Champion pen and paper game test it out. Because the game is suposed to be based on the H.E.R.O. system, these testers would have background knoledge of the game's inner workings allowing them to more effectivley help the developers.

[Slivan]

I agree to this thread to. For one i have tested quite a few games and yes i wont lie i do have fun testing but this isnt the point. the point is when testing its ok to play the game as you normaly would apart from one thing, one needs to report the bugs/glitches etc. while doing so.

[Foxfyre_Phoenix]

Anyone who's played Champions (the pen and paper game) or City of Heroes (a superhero mmo) would be the prime candidates here, I believe

[Slivan]

I've personally tested my fair share of games, though I will admit a few times it was just to preview. Of all the games I've tested only one had a truly hard working community for bug crushing, and that was Matrix Online. I think that it may have been because of the dedicated fanbase behind the Matrix series that lead to that. While the idea of pre quiz may be good, it might actually be more effective to have people who actually play the Champion pen and paper game test it out. Because the game is suposed to be based on the H.E.R.O. system, these testers would have background knoledge of the game's inner workings allowing them to more effectivley help the developers.

i dont agree with all of what you said... yea it is based on the H.E.R.O system but they also need to know how well people who have never even heard of it can comprehend what the system is and how it works. myself being one of them.

[Smog]

If asked, of course a beta applicant is going to say they played Champions.

I agree with the questionaire idea.

[fuzun]

You need all sort of player type for testing. You need experienced testers to find bugs and help document how to reproduce them. And you also need neophytes as sometimes things which seem obvious to the developers and players with a lot of the game experience aren't clear to new players. And sometimes new players will do or trying things which the developer or knowable playing wouldn't try and find a bug in the process.

[Payne]

A new MMO is announced and I've already noticed atleast one thread here of people begging to get into the game's Beta TEST (that's a key word we'll get to in a few), but they're begging just so they can get an early preview of the game. Over 1/3rd of recent MMO Beta testers are there for the sole purpose of getting to "play the game early, for free".

The key word of "Beta Testing" is that word I promised to get back to: Test. The whole point of being there is to test the game for any bugs, balancing issues, glitches, and any other problem that might effect the product when it's officially launched as a whole game. And, with such a large portion of Beta-ites not actually testing the game, they're not contributing to it's production either, thus could affect it's official launch. Some, instead of reporting bugs properly, tend to leak into the media that the game is busted (even though it's still in development) and that it's not worth the time or effort to bother with; this hurts the over-all community, but more so the product.

So, the solution: A 20-50 question questionaire that's in with the application process (that's beside the Dxdiag file and other information needed) that would be compiled of trick questions and such that could determin whether the person would truely test the game to aid in it's production, or use it as a free preview. Even using a feedback thing on the questionaire would be a good one too, for those that don't even use a simple feedback like that, their application could automatically be tossed out (think about it). The point is to have the previewers, players, and leakers out, and to keep the testers testing.


While I strongly agree with that idea... another thought may be to break it up into separate "beta's" ie: technical (stress testing/limited access) and a general/private beta (free realm/more qualified testers)

Just my .02 on the subject.

Also, HELLO EVERYONE! This has the potential to be a kick ass game! Look forward to it and being a part of the community here.

Payne

[LaserJudas]

I've actually properly Beta tested, as in -actually- tested things, nearly ten games.

While you're testing, you can also see. So, you know, doing the test gives you the best of both worlds.

[TerraDraconis]

I've actually properly Beta tested, as in -actually- tested things, nearly ten games.

While you're testing, you can also see. So, you know, doing the test gives you the best of both worlds.


Exactly, there is nothing that prevents you from playing some as you test but the goal of having the beta testers there is to find and break things before the hoards of paying customers find the bugs. So beta tests tend to be a bit more directed in the play you get right up until near release.

[Zombie_Man]

i dont agree with all of what you said... yea it is based on the H.E.R.O system but they also need to know how well people who have never even heard of it can comprehend what the system is and how it works. myself being one of them.

You failed trick question #1: It is not based on the HERO system. It will only borrow a few terms for stats, but it is a unique gaming mechanic.

:p

[wraithe76]

I agree that a questionaire would be one of the best ways to narrow the field down to those that would be effective beta testers, even if it means all I can do is pre-order and figure out how to make spring 09 get here faster :S

[8Seconds]

Anyone can cheat a test.

I ain't beggin for a key I jsut said GIVE ME ONE OR DIE!!!

Big difference.

[Bureaucrat]

If asked, of course a beta applicant is going to say they played Champions.

I agree with the questionaire idea.

If you really want to weed out who has and who has not played champions just give them an ocv and a dcv and ask what their chance to hit is.

however this game wont be using the hero system, only the champions setting

[LaserJudas]

If you really want to weed out who has and who has not played champions just give them an ocv and a dcv and ask what their chance to hit is.

however this game wont be using the hero system, only the champions setting

Well, are we basing this on the standard 11-?

[Ephezius]

Personally, I think the quiz idea would be pretty easy to cheat. I know when you interview people for a job, you can get a GREAT interview... and a crappy employee.

That being said, I do agree that there should be some criteria in place... past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior: I wonder if the team still has data from CoH Beta...

[Psilancer]

The quiz is a good idea. *pout* But as a big fan of HERO Games and CoX. I would LOVE to get in on the Beta. And I will freely admit. It is more to play than to bug test.:o

[Dekuthe]

so many people are saying that beta testing is just "testing" you're not there to play the game early. I don't quite agree with you, in order to actually test the game people need to play it as they would play it on release day, and just report the problems they run across....some of you are acting like you're some sort of special beta testing breed, get over yourselves...:rolleyes:

[Bastillian]

I beleive you need to test and play to give feedback because finding bugs doesnt mean that your making the game more fun or enjoyable. That is another aspect of beta testing that will help sell copies. Remeber: As sad as it is, those online and mag reviews sell more copies. So I'm sure they want people to play the game as much as search for bugs. WAR online and AoC both got pushed back because the BETA community was upset with some gameplay aspects(fun factor).

[Legendarious]

For sure. Companies really rely on our feedback from testing. If people are just messing around to get early play time, it just hurts the game. So I hope the people who Beta this game take that seriously cause I want this to be an amazing game!

That being said I would love to test the unholy hell out of your game.

[Psilancer]

Something else I'll beg for. Would you please, please, please fix bugs as soon as possible? There are still bugs in CoX today that were reported when it came out.

[Rhyder]

The only thing I say to look for, is for members that WILL TEST not PLAY. The whole point of beta is to test to help make the game better in any way possible, many people just sign up to think that they can get away with just playing the game. IMO that there should be some kind of rule for a weekly check when the beta starts if the person has reported or not reported anything at all to the devs and be kicked from beta. Although it may sound harsh it would be helpful to replace them with someone that will test the game and make it better for everyone else.

Sure there are some problems like if they have not found any problems at that point of the game or making up excuses.

Anyway enough of me ranting or w/e :). Just anyone that gets accepted into the beta please just help test we want this game to be amazing as I also am hoping to get accepted and be a great part of this community.

[Morgyn]

The people who usually are the most productive in beta testing are technical people or people from fields that require similiar traits because these people are detail oriented. People who are also imaginative are important too.

Beta testers have several jobs. Locate bugs, locate balancing issues, locate possible exploits, and perform stress testing. But, the MOST absolutely important thing is to convey their findings to the company.

A simple, "Oh I ran across this field and hit some weird glitch." won't do. They need to provide details; what they were doing, how they were doing it, in-game coordinates if possible, so on and so forth. I've heard of too many people just reporting half-assed comments about bugs and not enough details. The sooner a bug is fixed, the sooner the can move on to the next, and the more polished the game will be when it goes gold.

So, to me, when they look for Beta-testers they need people who are detailed oriented and will be playing the game imaginatively. Not just the way your supposed to, but people who are willing to experiment and do off the wall things with their characters as well. Glitches and exploits hide in the most obscure places.

Prior experience with the PnP game isn't needed. Is it good, yes; but not needed. They jsut need to be able to do the job and be willing to do it.

[Fortress]

I think you need all kinds for a beta test - those to test the game mechanics and those to test how the game plays, as well as a whole bunch of middle ground..... I I can help test how the game plays, help towards fixing some of the problems and help turn this into a great game, then I'll be a definite subscriber once it gets released :)

[Velorath]

A new MMO is announced and I've already noticed atleast one thread here of people begging to get into the game's Beta TEST (that's a key word we'll get to in a few), but they're begging just so they can get an early preview of the game. Over 1/3rd of recent MMO Beta testers are there for the sole purpose of getting to "play the game early, for free".


I'm all for people reporting bugs and such, but I think your attitude carries it too far in the other direction. Beta testers aren't getting hired on as paid employees (developers do obviously have their own in house testers, who are often likely to find a lot of the more obvious bugs, and even a lot of the less obvious ones) before the beta testers do. Making them jump through hoops for the privelege of working for free seems a bit tacky.

Have some surveys pop up at the end of playing sessions pop up every now and again, but expecting people to answer a 50 question pop quiz and expecting them to treat beta testing almost like it was an actual job is just unessecary. I'd be willing to bet that the developers get more data just from observing people playing (while also stress testing the servers) than they get from "john q. betatester's bug report of issue's we already knew about".

[DustRaven]

I'm all for people reporting bugs and such, but I think your attitude carries it too far in the other direction. Beta testers aren't getting hired on as paid employees (developers do obviously have their own in house testers, who are often likely to find a lot of the more obvious bugs, and even a lot of the less obvious ones) before the beta testers do. Making them jump through hoops for the privelege of working for free seems a bit tacky.

I can see what you're saying, but for me, who has played Champions for decades, and who has played other MMOs, I would very much like to see this game work and work well. If chosen as a beta tester, I would happily donate some of my free time to working out some of the bugs in the system just to help ensure the game is enjoyable when it goes live.

That said, I'm somewhat indifferent towards the quiz idea. I suppose the key is to find people who will actually provide feedback. You can only find bugs by playing the game, but it means nothing if you don't report any bugs, quirks, balance issues or anything else odd you see while you play. It would definitely help to weed out those who aren't inclined to provide such feedback naturally, but I'm not sure if a quiz will accomplish this.

I would be more in favor is a system of required feedback to maintain beta tester status. You must provide feedback every day to keep your test account unlocked. Probably a lot more hassle to configure something like this than it is for a quiz though...

[Wraiven]

I would like to add to the O.P.'s post, that not only do people have a tendency to judge a game and call it busted before it hits live, but I have noticed with previous tests and Beta's that I have ran, people discredit games before the actually "eye candy" is implemented. Most games like to save the "eye candy" for pre release. This is actually a bit common so it seems and should not be judged right off based on graphics. Furthermore, this is a TEST and not there for you to turn your head away from problems only to attempt to promote the game to live faster. See a bug? /bug it immediately. The sooner you report the bug and the more people who report the bug, the easier it is for the Devs to get on top of it A.S.A.P.


Thanks.

[Ithryn_Incarnate]

i thought a questionnaire was standard for a new MMO beta test...

[Rhyder]

In some cases yes and no, depends on the developer really

[Malixu]

I think a better idea would be to let beta testers apply to one of two stages; an early-beta stage for the serious bug hunters, and particularly those of us who like to make things break, or a second stage with a focus on tuning of the game mechanics and stress testing. You'll still get people who apply to early beta and then complain it's broken, but at least people who have no interest in complex bug hunts can apply for beta without then wandering around looking confused when the sky falls on them.

Oh, and if Fileplanet subscribers are going to be let into the beta, don't do it until you're happy the game is fun to play. We pay Fileplanet, who I presume pay to get us into the beta, and we're going to feel a lot less obliged to stick to a game that isn't fun *cough* Tabula Rasa *cough

[Rothbart]

I'm wondering more how/if there's going to be beta-testing for the Xbox 360 version, I'd imagine so but I have no idea how that would work...

[HeroJoe]

Obviously only those with ... quickly goes and checks his account ... more than 1000 rep on the Hero Games boards, at least a ...checks again...18 month veteran badge in COX, and who signed on to these boards in Feb08 should be allowed to beta test…then they have all the requisite knowledge of the precursor games and a record of contribution to the community.

Joking…mostly.

[Rhyder]

I'm wondering more how/if there's going to be beta-testing for the Xbox 360 version, I'd imagine so but I have no idea how that would work...

A way they could do beta with the 360 is like for example how CoD4 did it.

1. Sign Up
2. Wait to get accepted/if accepted
3. Receive E-mail with Beta Digit Code
4. Go on Xbox 360, into redeem code
5. Enter the Code
6. Allowed Access into Champions Online Beta(Whatever Phase)
7. Download

Thats exactly how the Call od Duty 4 beta for the 360 had worked, and will most likely happen with other games IMO because thats kinda the only for it to work, unless the devs send out beta cd's or w/e.

Either way I will be playing on both PC and 360 so it doesn't really matter which beta to me if accepted :)

[Neonox]

Ive tested many games, including CoH and CoV, and i didn't just do it to play for free (although i met a lot of people that did) i just made a character not caring how it looked and took about 10 minutes just running around testing the stability, then i actually went to fight. i admit a few times i logged in to just play but I'm sure most everyone does it, i test a product, and i want to get the most out of it i could. I'm also planning to become a game designer and thats why I test a few games, to learn what works and what doesn't. ID be happy even if i ran the same quest 100 times just as long as i get to help the people who brought us CoX.

[nutznboltz2003]

I guess I should add my $0.02 to the list.

I have been beta testing software for the past 10 years. I began with simple apps for PDAs, and have moved on to close testing software ranging from Microsoft products, to Quicken, and even Aspyr Media. I have only beta tested one MMO (which was Lineage for the Mac), but I have beta tested several games for both Windows and Mac OS. Having been a private tester for some MS products, I will say this much, I have learned to replicate and document errors!

I personally like the questionnaire concept. One of the best I saw was one that had trick questions in it. The questions did not relate to the game, but were just there to see if you were actually reading the questions, or just checking off boxes.

My philosophy is simple; if I get into a beta, great, if I don't, no big deal. The game looks interesting, and I will follow the development whether I am part of the beta or not.

--adam

[Test-Rat]

The game down't come out for more than 400 days folks.

Isn't it a bit early for jockeying and posturing for Beta spots?

[DensityMan]

To mimic the "stop taking yourselves so seriously" crowd, it is a game and while it needs to work right it needs to be enjoyable and fun as well (even more important actually that it be fun then bug-free).

Even those claiming to be ultra-tight no nonsense true blue BETA TESTERS are 'playing' the game. ;)

Both are needed; bug-crunchers and casuals alike (everyone complains in chat and the bug-crunchers - if taking themselves as seriously as they say they are - will then chase the bugs down to document them if the casuals can't be persuaded to /bugreport.

I'm a mix of the two myself and have performed that function for several games (and many MUDs in the days before pretty moving pixels)...

:D

[Iron_Tiger]

I have beta tested before, and I like doing it. I like finding bugs, and seeing the game evolve. The problem with a questionnaire is that it is unfair to the people who don't know any thing about Champions. I think it is better to do what they have done in the past and pick the people they see as best suited for the job, or completely at random.

[Raienya]

The game down't come out for more than 400 days folks.

Isn't it a bit early for jockeying and posturing for Beta spots?

Not really. There are always huge code rewrites, changes to game mechanics/design, etc. And depending on what bugs are found during the beta, that also entails a lot of rewriting of code.

I haven't beta tested a lot of games, just Everquest, CoH, and Vanguard. But, I can flat out tell you that when a company DOESN'T take the time to work out the bugs in beta and rushes said product to market too early *coughVanguardcough*, you end up with a product that nobody wants to play.

And THAT is the point of beta testing...to ensure that the company releases the best product that they can.

[JoBildo]

The game down't come out for more than 400 days folks.

Isn't it a bit early for jockeying and posturing for Beta spots?

I dunno... Pirates was in beta for what, 2 years or more? Granted that was a different dev and a different game altogether, but you have to take it into account when thinking about any beta. Because with a goal launch date of Spring 2009... beta could begin as early as tomorrow, really.

[Dfense75]

I myself would love to be in Beta for Champions. The oppurtunity to give feedback and contribute to the game would be such a privelage.

[Black-Menace]

i agree 100% with the exception of the 1/3 stat you pulled out of thing air...but other than that...great post!

[nutznboltz2003]

I can flat out tell you that when a company DOESN'T take the time to work out the bugs in beta and rushes said product to market too early *coughVanguardcough*, you end up with a product that nobody wants to play.

Vanguard is actually the MMO that I am currently playing. Honestly, I do enjoy it. I also came in late, October 2007, and have had a good time. The servers seem populated to me, as I don't have a problem finding a group, and as for all the crashes and errors people are talking about, I can't attest to that. I've only ever experienced one game crash under Windows, two when trying to run the game under Linux (Wine 0.95.3 on Ubuntu) in all that time.

I do agree with you though, as I have seen to many products rushed to market, even when testers were not happy with the product.

--adam

[Hhussk]

I've never beta-tested.

But I will say this. Last week I was literally sitting at my computer and trying to figure out a way to build a super-power flavored MMO. City of Heroes/Villians is a good game, don't ge me wrong. But there are so many things I'd like to see...things which I feel they could never incorporate at this point.

I've bought the Champions RPG book when it first came out in the 80's. There it was, hidden among all the D&D game modules, two guys on the cover exchanging super-powered blows. And I got it. Later still, I bought a 2nd and 3rd supplement book. New powers and so on offerred to expand my campaign.


There's more, of course, and here is my point:

Champion's, the game system, the concept of a new competitive MMO, is a breath of fresh air to me. The system is built on the foundation of customization. Disadvantages and weaknesses which are coupled with added power and strengths. That, in itself, tells me there is a lot of potential here.

So yes, I'd sign up with the beta. And of course I wouldn't expect every aspect of the original system to transcend to the MMO version. But I'd stretch it and twist it; pull it in ways to see what it could do.


In any event, today I found out that Champion's Online is on the table. Now I don't have to try and figure out how to make my own graphic MMO super-game :)

[RYNO]

While it is true that a Beta Testing is a neccessary evil, but it is also design for Stress Testing the System, and seeing how well it interacts with the publics computers, and Networks.

As for whom, and who should or should not partake, thats dicey. Because your can't technically exclude thoses interested, and yet, you can... LOL. Yeah that makes no sense.

Basically part of finding bugs, is to play the game while in Beta. But for thoses who want to just play the game early for free, and not help test the game, thats not right either....

Oh well.

[LaserJudas]

The game down't come out for more than 400 days folks.

Isn't it a bit early for jockeying and posturing for Beta spots?

Apparantly, it is never too early.

[Rhyder]

Apparantly, it is never too early.

Ya this is true I have been in many betas where the games beta started way early and I mean way early before its release, for example WoW started pretty early imo, Exteel isn't exactly a MMO but it did start prety dang early even though it also did freeze beta for a long period of time the point is it just started long before its release if I am making any sense here heh

[Onca]

A good thought, but also, don't want to make more work for the dev team, and wouldn't want it to be too hard. Someone mentioned that beta testing is about seeing how good the game play is, as well, and they want a certain amount of input. If not everyone that could give fair input can pass the little quiz, they're losing out on some opinions and suggestions.

And they wouldn't want to **** people off before the game is released, either ;)

[Siphaed]

Some people here are assuming that by "questionaire", that I mean a series of questions about the H.E.R.O system or about the Champion games themselves. By no means did I mention that or even consider it, instead the question would be simple ones that pretty much would use sernario type bugs and see how the person documents them and/or how they preceive them.

Example: "You're walking through a forest of trees in the central park of the city and the floor texture disappears and you're able to see the exoskeleton of the world below your feet (note, your character does NOT fall through the world). Please document the scenario."

(I will answer the above scenario with the correct answer after work at 6:00pm MT {mountain time}. Good luck.)

[Five_Alive]

One of the best initial Beta Test programs I've been in is when there is a Testing Event calendar that asks you to be on at a certain time on certain days. The time you are in the game is spent working on a specific part of the game (there would be a GM/CM in control of us at all times), it wasn't until the end of the Beta that we were given a little more latitude to freeform test.

[scaryroker]

I totally agree. I have joined an ongoing beta just to merely play the game for 2 purposes. (a) Early and (b) for free. If they had a more serious questionaire/quiz, it could help with the selection of testers. Even a portion of the application should ask for amount of testing experiance.

I would definetly love to be in the Alpha and see how things will shape up and what the devs are thinking design wise.

[HellKnightX]

I'll admit I'm not at all familiar with the Champions PnP game myself, but I have been involved in dozens of betas in the past (both casually and professionally), including CoH/CoV; and from my experience, about 90% of the people that make it into private betas (and even moreso in public betas) are there just to play the game. I do like the idea of a questionnaire, but a smart player knows how to lie.

I think awareness of what a beta test actually is would improve players' ability to help out the devs. There should be a Beta FAQ posted so people know exactly what they're expected to do and whether or not they should apply. The biggest thing that tends to turn players away from betas are constant character wipes and limited server playtime windows. I'm sure if people actually took time to read the NDA and other contracts associated with being a beta tester (face it, most people don't read them; and it comes back to bite them later), they would probably help out a lot more in the bug-squashing process.

[SonicFlash]

I think a lot of beta testers hope both get to play a late-model game for free for a while, as well as the feeling of acceptance, but also perhaps the feeling that they're helping to influence the direction of the game.

Testing anything is really hard to do. We aren't in the alpha here; we're in the beta. We aren't the hired bug testers who have a checklist to test if jumping 50 times into a building will cause anything to go wrong (though I will be looking for a job in the spring, heh), we, the hopeful beta testers, are asked to to play as we would, encouraged to play expansively and comprehensively, but naturally. If you spend all your time playing one class, you would have a deeper feel for that class than those who tested all different classes, but in a less comprehensive fashion.

If the people picked to test the game in beta end up playing a lot, they're doing their job. I'm sure the designers would also hope that the beta testers are those in influence of publications and media forms and would hype the game for them, but that's sort of a seperate thing.

[Siphaed]

Example: "You're walking through a forest of trees in the central park of the city and the floor texture disappears and you're able to see the exoskeleton of the world below your feet (note, your character does NOT fall through the world). Please document the scenario."

(I will answer the above scenario with the correct answer after work at 6:00pm MT {mountain time}. Good luck.)

Answer:

"First, note the time and date, then which trees are around the character when facing one direction, then turn right and document which buildings are visible, and then left to do the same thing. Document every detail of what you can see around the character, without moving the character from the spot of the bug. Start jumping up and down several times to see if it's more of a physical thing, instead of a texture thing; Document that too.

After that documentation, walk/run forward until bypassing the bug zone. Stop and document where, when your character is. Turn around and go back in the same direction your character came from to see if the bug occures from entering the area from a different direction. Stop at the same bug location, and document the time, and every detail of the things around it. Go far back towards the zone where you very first started, turn around, and head back your original way towards the bug zone to see if it reoccures again. Document time once more."



And, that's how to answer how to react to a bug within a beta. The following is NOT how to answer the same senario question:

"I was in the park near some trees and found a bug. The ground was missing, but I wasn't falling. I went the other way so I wouldn't fall in."


The point is to pay attention to the details of the game and your surroundings. Sure, there's playing the game just like it should, but to also document that when you come across something wrong. Just the same, try and repeat the bug multiple times, not just pass it so you can play the game.

[Malaclypse]

A new MMO is announced and I've already noticed atleast one thread here of people begging to get into the game's Beta TEST (that's a key word we'll get to in a few), but they're begging just so they can get an early preview of the game. Over 1/3rd of recent MMO Beta testers are there for the sole purpose of getting to "play the game early, for free".

The key word of "Beta Testing" is that word I promised to get back to: Test. The whole point of being there is to test the game for any bugs, balancing issues, glitches, and any other problem that might effect the product when it's officially launched as a whole game. And, with such a large portion of Beta-ites not actually testing the game, they're not contributing to it's production either, thus could affect it's official launch. Some, instead of reporting bugs properly, tend to leak into the media that the game is busted (even though it's still in development) and that it's not worth the time or effort to bother with; this hurts the over-all community, but more so the product.

So, the solution: A 20-50 question questionaire that's in with the application process (that's beside the Dxdiag file and other information needed) that would be compiled of trick questions and such that could determin whether the person would truely test the game to aid in it's production, or use it as a free preview. Even using a feedback thing on the questionaire would be a good one too, for those that don't even use a simple feedback like that, their application could automatically be tossed out (think about it). The point is to have the previewers, players, and leakers out, and to keep the testers testing.

Definitely agreed... but of course any dev team is going to have to determine for themselves what their own priorities for Beta testing are, and that'll be largely informed by what they might feel is difficult, lacking or weak in their own internal testing efforts. It's almost impossible for those of us on the outside to come up with a one-size-fits-all approach to determining beta test users.

[Rough-house]

good idea about the quiz, to get suitable pool of candidates and maybe a random draw out of the pool? just a thought. Looking forward to seeing the game at any rate, be nice to see an old favorite of mine coming to the computer gaming age

[Shield-Guardian]

My reasons for wanting to get in on beta testing (which I belive is a long long way off but who knows) is that I loved the concept of City of Heroes but hated the mechanics. I want to have input on powers, game balance and please oh please stick to the open character plan I have heard about this game. I want to be able to look back after the game goes live and see something that my testing may have helped.

Do I want to play for free? Do I want to preview the game? Of course I do I would be lying if I said I didn't but more importantly I would like to have input in what has the potential to be a great game. CoX had alot of frustrating barriers for me and I still played that for 38 months. I can't help but think how much more a game I had input on would interest me.

Just joined the forums and have not had the time to read through everything but I HATE archtypes. I want a game that will truly let people build a unique character. If Champion's delivers that alone I will probally be a longtime customer heh.

Also I like the idea of the quiz, I never really know what to say in the little open window that you get for beta application. I usually just list off the games I have been in beta for (which has been a few).

[Hemo_Goblin]

Will you have access to the CoX player lists that were active bug finders on test?

I am a shoe in if so.

[Lucen]

I've personally tested my fair share of games, though I will admit a few times it was just to preview. Of all the games I've tested only one had a truly hard working community for bug crushing, and that was Matrix Online. I think that it may have been because of the dedicated fanbase behind the Matrix series that lead to that. While the idea of pre quiz may be good, it might actually be more effective to have people who actually play the Champion pen and paper game test it out. Because the game is suposed to be based on the H.E.R.O. system, these testers would have background knoledge of the game's inner workings allowing them to more effectivley help the developers.

I beta tested MxO as well. I have to say the beta community there was phenomenal. People understood that they were there to find problems and report them. I've been in quite a few Beta's myself, and that was the only one I've seen where the majority of the players there weren't just running around playing the game.

Don't know if I'll have time to beta test this, but if I do, I hope I see a beta community like MxO had.

[Esbat]

I remember betaing City of heroes and answering question boxes at the end of missions and events, it was great I could give an immediate response to what the heck just happened. First time it happened was against my first fight against a Boss in a warehouse mission, I was a Force Fields/Dark Defender and that fight took close to 20 minutes. When he finally dropped, the clockwork boss, he spawned those little pet minion cogs and I BARELY survived that little tussle as my health and endurance was in the red. I remember exiting the mission and the pop up box coming up and I just overwhelmed it with praise for the interesting NPC tactics, and the epicness of the fight, it was the first time I felt like a real hero ingame and that I still had much to go in training and powers before I could face other foes. I also both praised and hated upon the little minion drop at the end... lol.

[Ashgan]

Hell No I hate trick questions, for some reason i always answer wrong I duno why but my through process always goes for the trick even tho I think about it.

[Highlightning]

...While the idea of pre quiz may be good, it might actually be more effective to have people who actually play the Champion pen and paper game test it out. Because the game is suposed to be based on the H.E.R.O. system, these testers would have background knoledge of the game's inner workings allowing them to more effectivley help the developers.

You go to requiring a working knowledge of the H.E.R.O. system before one may participate in the testing and you profoundly narrow the number of people available to test the game. This should not be a prerequisite. I know it may sound good in theory, but I assure you in practice it would be a greater hinderance than a help. :D

[Vlos]

Never played Champions tbh, not enough people around to do any sort of PnPing, but I kind of agree that if you're building the character creation of something off an existing system that you're gonna want people testing it who are already familiar with it. After you've got a good core of people who know their left nut from their right, then you can bring in the people who're gonna be stumbling around in the dark. After that, then you bring in CoXers like me who'll be nitpicking everything with "It wasn't like this in CoH!" or "Why doesn't CoH have this!?".

[SoulCatcher]

Not a bad point. Alot of people don't realize that beta testing is work on the part of the beta testers. It isn't just playing the game early.

I totally agree the "work" the Beta people put in will help the game long term.

[Rhyder]

I totally agree the "work" the Beta people put in will help the game long term.

Most definetly and I hope thats how the beta to come "whenever it is" will be. I hope people don't just go around like in other past beta experience, some says "So who's the highest lvl!?!?". That doesn't matter in beta the fact that matters in beta is the amount of work that you have put it not the lvling, the more you put in the better its going to come out. Please keep this in mind.

[Tiger]

Alpha testing is suppose to find most of the big bugs. Beta is mainly used to stress test the servers and see how the game acts with various computer builds (video cards, networks, and operating systems etc.) I like your idea but more than likely they realize Beta is more of a Marketing tool than Quality Assurance.

[Masonity]

See, the thing is I would join for a free preview... If it wasn't for the fact that i love breaking things. Ever sicne i got the chance to pre-beta test a game as an in house tester a few years back I've lvoed nothing more than making things stop working properly...

However, I wouldn't do it post-release. That would only ruin other people's fun, unbalance the game and be generally unsporting. The key is to do it when it's still a good thing, not a bad thing.

It always annoyed me when companies have "no exploits" warnigns in betas. Most MMO companies now want us to "playtest" their games, not try to break them. When i was invited into the Football Manager Live beta i was extremely annoyed when people were told off for breaking things. I went out and asked openly "Aren't we meant to try to break things" and was told a clear "No. Play the game as you would normally. We have testers for breaking stuff"....

How ****** short sighted!

[ProdigalMonkey]

(that's beside the Dxdiag file and other information needed)

How do I generate the Dxdiag file for my XBox 360?

:p

My first post...and it's a smart a$$ comment. I'm such a jerk.

[Bad_Luck]

A new MMO is announced and I've already noticed atleast one thread here of people begging to get into the game's Beta TEST (that's a key word we'll get to in a few), but they're begging just so they can get an early preview of the game. Over 1/3rd of recent MMO Beta testers are there for the sole purpose of getting to "play the game early, for free".

The key word of "Beta Testing" is that word I promised to get back to: Test. The whole point of being there is to test the game for any bugs, balancing issues, glitches, and any other problem that might effect the product when it's officially launched as a whole game. And, with such a large portion of Beta-ites not actually testing the game, they're not contributing to it's production either, thus could affect it's official launch. Some, instead of reporting bugs properly, tend to leak into the media that the game is busted (even though it's still in development) and that it's not worth the time or effort to bother with; this hurts the over-all community, but more so the product.

So, the solution: A 20-50 question questionaire that's in with the application process (that's beside the Dxdiag file and other information needed) that would be compiled of trick questions and such that could determin whether the person would truely test the game to aid in it's production, or use it as a free preview. Even using a feedback thing on the questionaire would be a good one too, for those that don't even use a simple feedback like that, their application could automatically be tossed out (think about it). The point is to have the previewers, players, and leakers out, and to keep the testers testing.

Also, a list of references, digital stool sample, rectal probing, and express permission of his highness "Siphaed". Failure to provide these will result in not getting into the beta. And by 'not getting into the beta', I mean killed.

[Discord]

I agree; way too many games have suffered set-backs and extensive patches because people were only "playing" the game, rather than "testing" it. I'll be there to test the &$%# out of it, to be sure; and as a word of warning to any Devs that may be reading this thread - I will be needless granular in my bug reports, and shall do my utmost to drive you folx crazy ;)

[Trojan]

Interesting idea.

[Siphaed]

Alpha testing is suppose to find most of the big bugs. Beta is mainly used to stress test the servers and see how the game acts with various computer builds (video cards, networks, and operating systems etc.) I like your idea but more than likely they realize Beta is more of a Marketing tool than Quality Assurance.


No, you're talking about an "open Beta", that's a marketing tool. A closed beta is a 2nd stage testing after the Alpha (thus the name Alpha Test=1st test, and Beta Test=2nd test). It's a testing phase that's used to find out bugs that aren't normally noticable during the 1st phase testing, and/or bugs that the game delveloper's wouldn't normally find because they're testing it the way they intended it to be. While other testers would find other ways of testing stuff (example would be if testers are using a flying ability to fly in and out of water and even water falls, or on statues to try to stand on or between limbs on a tree: that all could have possible invisible walls, or no collision detection at all). Pretty much, they've got to find hundreds and thousands of different ways of thinking of ways to test stuff, and to do that they need hundreds and thousands of different TESTER minds.

[Capt.Caffine]

Hi. I agree totally with what was said. Otherwise you are just wasting the developers time in trying to prevent server breakdowns.

[Malaclypse]

I remember betaing City of heroes and answering question boxes at the end of missions and events, it was great I could give an immediate response to what the heck just happened. First time it happened was against my first fight against a Boss in a warehouse mission, I was a Force Fields/Dark Defender and that fight took close to 20 minutes. When he finally dropped, the clockwork boss, he spawned those little pet minion cogs and I BARELY survived that little tussle as my health and endurance was in the red. I remember exiting the mission and the pop up box coming up and I just overwhelmed it with praise for the interesting NPC tactics, and the epicness of the fight, it was the first time I felt like a real hero ingame and that I still had much to go in training and powers before I could face other foes. I also both praised and hated upon the little minion drop at the end... lol.

Actually, I had forgotten about the surveys on missions that they did - thanks for reminding me!

[G-Force]

I don't think there should be a "test" to see who qualifies to be a beta tester. You all need to be honest with yourselves. No one is testing for the sake of testing. You test because the trade off is that you get to play the game. And don't forget that beta testing is just as much testing the server capacity as it is bug testing. Just because someone doesn't post bug reports doesn't mean their participation didn't help develop the game. Their mere presence on the server gives the devs much needed info. Lastly, let's not ignore the fact that there's a certain amount of marketing going on. There are plenty of potential customers out there that have a hard time shelling out 50 bucks and committing to a monthly fee for a game they haven't previewed. Would it be nice if every tester who ever came across a bug reported it? Sure. Is it a realistic expectation? No.

[Beef_Cake]

A new MMO is announced and I've already noticed atleast one thread here of people begging to get into the game's Beta TEST (that's a key word we'll get to in a few), but they're begging just so they can get an early preview of the game. Over 1/3rd of recent MMO Beta testers are there for the sole purpose of getting to "play the game early, for free".

The key word of "Beta Testing" is that word I promised to get back to: Test. The whole point of being there is to test the game for any bugs, balancing issues, glitches, and any other problem that might effect the product when it's officially launched as a whole game. And, with such a large portion of Beta-ites not actually testing the game, they're not contributing to it's production either, thus could affect it's official launch. Some, instead of reporting bugs properly, tend to leak into the media that the game is busted (even though it's still in development) and that it's not worth the time or effort to bother with; this hurts the over-all community, but more so the product.

So, the solution: A 20-50 question questionaire that's in with the application process (that's beside the Dxdiag file and other information needed) that would be compiled of trick questions and such that could determin whether the person would truely test the game to aid in it's production, or use it as a free preview. Even using a feedback thing on the questionaire would be a good one too, for those that don't even use a simple feedback like that, their application could automatically be tossed out (think about it). The point is to have the previewers, players, and leakers out, and to keep the testers testing.

That is one thing I never understood how they chose a beta tester for CoX releases and expansions. Since the release of CoH, I have beta tested for each and every update. I never signed up to beta test so I know it wasn't that.

It was fun finding bugs and getting them reported as fast as possible, it was more of a mini game for some of us to see who could find the most bugs between the select few who were beta testers. So we will have to wait and see how they chose the testers here as well.

But a questionaire would be cool :)

[Blaze]

Anyone who's played Champions (the pen and paper game) or City of Heroes (a superhero mmo) would be the prime candidates here, I believe


I agree, and not just because I fit that criteria!:D

[Blurr]

While this is a noble idea, and ideally we want to get the most people performing proper testing procedures, it actually breaks down when put into practice. Firstly I want to say that I've been around beta tests alot, I've been doing beta tests for close to 12 years now and have over 10,000 hours logged. There are a few reasons why this idea definately needs some tweaking in the very least.

1) Numbers. The fact is that one of the most important parts of an MMO beta test is to try and simulate the kinds of loads the game will see on launch. This means we need numbers of people to stress test, load up specific areas, and so on. In addition, if we have more people in the beta test, we'll have more people trying out different combinations of powers and costumes and trying different things, which brings me to my next point..

2) They are still testing. While they may not be providing feedback reports and such, they are still going through the game and putting the tech through it's paces. They will be going to all the different areas and people will try different tactics to come at different problems, thus aiding balance and allowing the devs to see how their system holds up. As well, in the event of a game-breaking bug like falling through the world or getting stuck in a lamp post, even the "beta previewer" people will usually submit a report or petition to ask a GM to come rescue them, allowing the GM to properly report what happened. Hopefully Champions will have a discrete error-logging system so that even if the user doesn't see a hitch, glitch, or bug, the client can still report that information back to the QA team, which again is my next point...

3) There will (hopefully) be an internal QA team, and while beta testing tends to help them out alot, generally they will take care of the most important bugs and problems in-house. As for the smaller stuff...

4) No MMO has ever launched completely bug-free. The depth and breadth of these games means that they can never be completely fool-proof and there will always end up being one or two things that simply didn't or couldn't get found or fixed before launch date. The community knows this and will be accepting of the tiny things.

Adding all these things up means we need the "early preview" testers as well as the "hardcore beta hounds". The solution therefore isn't to exclude testers for not providing feedback info, the solution is to encourage the testers we do get to be more likely to provide feedback and bug reports.

Besides, some people will just flat out lie if they think it'll get them into beta.

It's good to see people thinking and trying to come up with ways of making the beta process more efficient though.

[Malaclypse]

I don't think there should be a "test" to see who qualifies to be a beta tester. You all need to be honest with yourselves. No one is testing for the sake of testing. You test because the trade off is that you get to play the game. And don't forget that beta testing is just as much testing the server capacity as it is bug testing. Just because someone doesn't post bug reports doesn't mean their participation didn't help develop the game. Their mere presence on the server gives the devs much needed info. Lastly, let's not ignore the fact that there's a certain amount of marketing going on. There are plenty of potential customers out there that have a hard time shelling out 50 bucks and committing to a monthly fee for a game they haven't previewed. Would it be nice if every tester who ever came across a bug reported it? Sure. Is it a realistic expectation? No.

Well, you have some points - I think what people are really doing here is hoping to get in on the early closed beta, though, where things are still up in the air, getting to see stuff while it's in the making, behind the scenes, much earlier than the rest of us.

Those folks are generally invited from a select list, developed from forum postings, or from previous games, or from that big ol' list that is floating around the game industry. Yes, we know you have it! Well, getting invites for betas from out of the blue on games you've never heard from from companies you didn't know existed is sort of a giveaway. Oh, wait, not everyone gets those, I should shush!

[Fae]

I think the Questionnaire is an excellent idea. If you design it well you could use it to select a wide range of beta testers. You should try to get a range of ages from young to old, male and female, different countries, hero pen&dice fans, CoX fans, online gamers of compeitive games, people who have never tried online gaming before.

I played CoX (not the Beta) and always reported any bugs - even developed games get them sometimes. It would be handy if you had a quick link button on the forum to report bugs or a link in game from the menu. I know it will add to the coding but maybe also a pop-up that happens if the game crashes so you can ask someone 'what happened just before the crash'?

I would love to test the game but I can't find the spec for the pc so don't know if I am suitable. Ooo thats something else you could ask in the quiz, 'what spec is the pc?' so you can select people from the minumum spec and the top spec so you can find out how it performs on different models.

If you construct the questionnaire well it could also aid as marketing resource as you could analyse the areas of the market that you are not appealing to or not impressing.

[Nimbus]

While I admit to mostly "trying" the game in beta I also have to agree. Open beta is for those who want to try it, not closed. I also believe that letting us try it is a must. I personally don't want to go buy the game, pay 15 bucks and find out I don't like it. I will however make an exception to actually test this game as I really have high hopes for it taking up almost all of my free time eventually.

[Angellice]

While i agree that most players who apply for a beta are doing it just to get to play for free. I dissagree that a questionaire would be the way to weed out those people, or if that would even be a good thing.
I've only beta'd two games, LOTRO and MXO, but i've played the gambit of MMORPGs, (SWG pre-post pub 9. CU, CU2 and GE. MXO before and after SOE, EQ, EQ2, COX, Vanguard, and a few others) and one thing i've found is people will play wether or not they're testing. and you really need the "players" in addition to the testers to find all the bugs, because someone playing the game will find different bugs than someone testing, and while not all the players will report all the bugs, i imagine the ones players are most apt to find (collision errors, game breakers, and other annoying bugs you tend to find while jumping into odd places) will get reported just because the player can't get out of it without a GM. as far as having experience with the Champions game/stories can help some with game mechanics and continuity errors, it should also not be required because most of the people who buy the game won't have ever even LOOKED at a PNP RPG handbook, and we want to make sure that those people aren't alienated by the strange concepts that they don't understand, and steep learning curve of a system aimed twords Champions vets.


EDIT: posted too early

[Havok_CoH]

While your idea sounds initiall good ... remember Beta Testing (not Alpha Testing) should take both experienced and inexperienced users into account.

You want people who know nothing about the game.

To give you an extreme example I work for a Rail Road company. I'm currently rewriting one of our billing systems. The original billing system does its job however when it was written only experienced individuals tested the system. They knew what everything meant. No our customers have no idea what the system is doing. It unfortuantely requires a PhD in railroading to understand the **** screens.

Less then 2 years later I'm completely rewriting the system from the ground up so you don't have to have that incredible knowledge.

If the system had only been tested with the inexperienced and the experienced this problem would have been caught and hundreds of thousands possibly millions would have been saved.

[Siphaed]

The questionaire with full application:


Basic Required Information:

Email Address:

Email Address(confirm):

First Name:

Last Name:

Nick Name(user boards/game's nickname if applicable):

City:

State/Province:

Zip Code:

Country: [Drop down list with countries]

Age: [Drop down list with ages]

Birth Date: [Three drop down lists with month, day, and year]

Language Preference: [Drop down list]

Phone #:

DXDiag.txt (How do I get my DXDiag.txt?):

Desired Password (atleast 6 characters):

Confirm Password:

Questionaire:

Are you an employee in the computer and video game industry?: [Yes/No drop list]

Are you a member of the press?: [Yes/No drop list]

Which Online Games have you played?: (select all that apply): [Check box list of most/all MMO's]

Please list the dates you've played those games between: [1,000 character limit typing space]

Please list the servers you've played on matching those games, any other games played that are not listed, and/or which online games you're currently playing: [This'll be a 1,000 character limit typing space]

Which upcoming Online Game (Other then Champions Online) are you most looking forward to?:

According to the Bartle Test (http://www.guildcafe.com/bartle.php), which best describes your game style?: [Drop list of the 4 types under the Bartle test]

Why do you want to Beta test Champions Online?: [1,000 character limit typing space]

In-game, you see a section of the sidewalk blinking in and out. You talk up to it and fall through the world. Is this a texture issue? [Yes/No drop list]
--Describe how you'd report this issue in-game: [1,000 character limit typing space]

In-game, a tiger approaches you and an attack engages; However, the tiger is still showing as a running animation and isn't showing that it's attacking, only the number of HP flying on your screen is proof of the attack. How should this be described in a bug report?: [Listing of several possible answers: 1) It's bugged where the tiger is attacking me when it's running. 2) What bug, there's no bug. It's fine. 3) The tiger is missing a combat animation. 4) The tiger is missing a running animation. 5) My character was running when it was trying to attack a tiger. 6) The tiger is missing it's textures. 7) answers 4 and 6. 8) Answers 5 and 1.]

You're walking through a park and find that an entire section of sidewalk is missing infront of you. You're able to see through the world. What do you do?: [List of answers: A) Report it as a sidewalk missing B) Report it as an animation missing C) Report it as a character texture missing D) Report it as a world texture missing.]
---Describe how you'd troubleshoot that area to further assist the GMs when reporting the bug: [1,000 character limit typing space]



And there you have it. That's how a Beta application should be done for an MMORPG. And, using the answers given, it would help determin whether or not the person is worth having to test their product.

Edit: More questions could be added at a later date, if say they had a seperate Technical Beta from the General Beta, then they'd need more questions with more specifics towards it.

[Soopermoose]

I'd be fine with filling out a questionaire, I've done a few betas in my time, most recently being the LotRo. I really like Siphaed's questions, and I'm sure if they used one similiar to that it would work out great.

[Rhyder]

The questionaire with full application:


Basic Required Information:

Email Address:

Email Address(confirm):

First Name:

Last Name:

Nick Name(user boards/game's nickname if applicable):

City:

State/Province:

Zip Code:

Country: [Drop down list with countries]

Age: [Drop down list with ages]

Birth Date: [Three drop down lists with month, day, and year]

Language Preference: [Drop down list]

Phone #:

DXDiag.txt (How do I get my DXDiag.txt?):

Desired Password (atleast 6 characters):

Confirm Password:

Questionaire:

Are you an employee in the computer and video game industry?: [Yes/No drop list]

Are you a member of the press?: [Yes/No drop list]

Which Online Games have you played?: (select all that apply): [Check box list of most/all MMO's]

Please list the dates you've played those games between: [1,000 character limit typing space]

Please list the servers you've played on matching those games, any other games played that are not listed, and/or which online games you're currently playing: [This'll be a 1,000 character limit typing space]

Which upcoming Online Game (Other then Champions Online) are you most looking forward to?:

According to the Bartle Test (http://www.guildcafe.com/bartle.php), which best describes your game style?: [Drop list of the 4 types under the Bartle test]

Why do you want to Beta test Champions Online?: [1,000 character limit typing space]

In-game, you see a section of the sidewalk blinking in and out. You talk up to it and fall through the world. Is this a texture issue? [Yes/No drop list]
--Describe how you'd report this issue in-game: [1,000 character limit typing space]

In-game, a tiger approaches you and an attack engages; However, the tiger is still showing as a running animation and isn't showing that it's attacking, only the number of HP flying on your screen is proof of the attack. How should this be described in a bug report?: [Listing of several possible answers: 1) It's bugged where the tiger is attacking me when it's running. 2) What bug, there's no bug. It's fine. 3) The tiger is missing a combat animation. 4) The tiger is missing a running animation. 5) My character was running when it was trying to attack a tiger. 6) The tiger is missing it's textures. 7) answers 4 and 6. 8) Answers 5 and 1.]

You're walking through a park and find that an entire section of sidewalk is missing infront of you. You're able to see through the world. What do you do?: [List of answers: A) Report it as a sidewalk missing B) Report it as an animation missing C) Report it as a character texture missing D) Report it as a world texture missing.]
---Describe how you'd troubleshoot that area to further assist the GMs when reporting the bug: [1,000 character limit typing space]



And there you have it. That's how a Beta application should be done for an MMORPG. And, using the answers given, it would help determin whether or not the person is worth having to test their product.

Edit: More questions could be added at a later date, if say they had a seperate Technical Beta from the General Beta, then they'd need more questions with more specifics towards it.


Thats a perfect example of a beta questionnaire, asking questions on how to report a bug,missing animations, ect is a good thought as to who should join a beta, which gives the devs on who would be a successful beta tester to them and who would give the most support

[Hallimeda]

The idea of a test app is good. I have a friend who is working on the DCU MMo and we were discussing beta testers and how the majority of them lately just seem to whine that the game doesn't play well and it sucks.

That's not helpful - its annoying.

There need to be responses like "I was traveling from Point A to Point B and every 4 steps my toon would stall for 2 seconds and then begin moving again. Once I reached Point B it was no longer an issue nor was it an issue when I was traveling from Point B to Point C"

Whining that something doesn't work without giving the specifics of what was or wasn't happening when it didn't work isn't helping the problem and isn't going to get the solution for you any faster.

[Bad_Luck]

I contend that this is a silly idea. At least some of the devs on this game have done this before, so they probably know a little about who to pick for beta. A test is a bad idea, why? Because people will fudge the answers to what they think the devs will want. Also, I doubt they would ask for your password and I know a lot of people would be leery about giving out so much personal data. All in all, I will not /sign this.

[Siphaed]

I contend that this is a silly idea. At least some of the devs on this game have done this before, so they probably know a little about who to pick for beta. A test is a bad idea, why? Because people will fudge the answers to what they think the devs will want. Also, I doubt they would ask for your password and I know a lot of people would be leery about giving out so much personal data. All in all, I will not /sign this.

If you read that clearly, that's a full Beta application. A password is needed to be created if the applicant wants to change their DXDiag.txt file if their computer changes. And, most of those questions would be very hard to "fudge the answers" for, because they include choosing from multiple choice and then adding an annalysis afterwards. Another thing that keeps people from lying (fudging) that they've pre-tested or played many other games is the required dates of playing field and the required listing of servers played on for those game.

Also, as a side not, by having the questionaire on an application, it would make it less likely that people would spam apply; due to them having to fill out the writtten parts and each application would/should be different and not sounding the same.

As for the "so much personal data", I actually used several recent Beta applications from games like Tabula Rasa, Age of Conan, Warhammer: Online, and Pirates of the Burning Seas to create that section of the application. All of those MMOs, and most MMOs in the past, have required that much personal information because the applicant, if accepted, would be signing and agreeing to a legal binding contract. That information is needed so that, if applicable, the company could (and would) take legal action against a person/persons who would A) Leak company secrets to other companies or B) Hack and crash/destroy their systems. Honestly, it's not much different then the information needed when making an account for the retail game, only slightly more info for legal reasons.

[Roach]

I beta'ed on CoV and I agree this is a good idea to weed out the posers.

[Damarus]

You need all sort of player type for testing. You need experienced testers to find bugs and help document how to reproduce them. And you also need neophytes as sometimes things which seem obvious to the developers and players with a lot of the game experience aren't clear to new players. And sometimes new players will do or trying things which the developer or knowable playing wouldn't try and find a bug in the process.

I like that post. The only thing I don't like is people getting invited into closed beta and not doing it. Usually a very limited amount of people go in, and a very limited amount of those actually log in more than twice. Other than that, I wonder what kinda questions a quiz like that could have, people will just bull**** it .

[CrimsonFury]

sigh, are people just dumb or what? The point of testing is to get a varied audience, experienced, un-experienced, smart, dumb, famaliar with champions, unfamiliar with champions. You don't want all experienced beta bug testers. They tend to be less "stupid" and don't do as manyakward thigns, that somone who has no lcue what they're doing. They also want people unfamiliar with champions, because well if things arn't explained well enough for non experienced people, which will make up the bulk of thier clientell then that would make them kinda dumb wouldn't it? Bottom line it's diversity.

[Bad_Luck]

If you read that clearly, that's a full Beta application. A password is needed to be created if the applicant wants to change their DXDiag.txt file if their computer changes. And, most of those questions would be very hard to "fudge the answers" for, because they include choosing from multiple choice and then adding an annalysis afterwards. Another thing that keeps people from lying (fudging) that they've pre-tested or played many other games is the required dates of playing field and the required listing of servers played on for those game.

So it's standard practice for companies to ask players for the password they plan on using before joining a beta. Ok. And you can fudge any test, especially if you're allowed outside sources of information (i.e. the internet).

Also, as a side not, by having the questionaire on an application, it would make it less likely that people would spam apply; due to them having to fill out the writtten parts and each application would/should be different and not sounding the same.

I wouldn't be surprised if some did it anyway. It seems to me that using the forum itself would be a better determination of what a player knows, how they communicate, and their willingness to find problems. As others have mentioned, the devs might not just want the 'best and the brightest' only, but the forums help with that too.

As for the "so much personal data", I actually used several recent Beta applications from games like Tabula Rasa, Age of Conan, Warhammer: Online, and Pirates of the Burning Seas to create that section of the application. All of those MMOs, and most MMOs in the past, have required that much personal information because the applicant, if accepted, would be signing and agreeing to a legal binding contract. That information is needed so that, if applicable, the company could (and would) take legal action against a person/persons who would A) Leak company secrets to other companies or B) Hack and crash/destroy their systems. Honestly, it's not much different then the information needed when making an account for the retail game, only slightly more info for legal reasons.

Well, that makes sense when you put it like that. But again, fundamentally flawed idea that mainly sounds like an excuse to repeatedly list your own beta credentials. And since you're been in so many, is a quiz actually how they determine who to put in beta?

[Silverlion]

I've participated in Beta tests and felt dutybound to report any bugs, any prominent issues with play I came upon.

The problem of course is one of "mechanics working as intended", versus "mechanics working as I want them too." as I can look for errors in the first, the second is opinion only. I may include feedback on the latter but only in that context.

"I don't like villain X" isn't really helpful to a game. (Paper or computer based.) On the other hand "villain x gets stuck in a wall when he tries to fly away.." IS an issue that can be addressed in Beta. There are some games whose mechanics worked very smoothly but just weren't for me. Exteel for example...I was expecting something like Armored Core meets Professional Hockey...and that really isn't what it was--I was wanting more RPG elements basically, more tailoring at the beginning etc. But that doesn't mean Exteel sucks, it just isn't what I wanted from a mecha combat game. Recognizing the difference between "What I want" and "What works." is important in beta testing.

So I'm up for questionnaires, I actually found the feedback system in LOTR really good. You finish a quest it asks you to answer a short questionnaire that asked for opinion, but was highly focused on play.

"Was this quest such and such difficulty?" "Whas this reward worth it?" and I filled those out because I wanted them to know.

Perhaps when Beta comes out similar feedback system can be incorporated.

[Captain_Intrepid]

Sometimes even those who undergo rigorous screening for beta applications break the NDA that comes with Closed Beta. Those who check for leaks should keep an eye out in sites such as YouTube, for example, for those who Beta 'test' and then post up what's meant to be kept under wraps.

Anyways, having a mix of testers, rather than only dedicated veteran beta testers, is usually better to get a wider range of reactions to game features and may be able to report bugs that might be overlooked by vet beta testers.

I liked the way CoH was beta tested, it eventually brought in all of those registered (within a certain registration time) into Closed Beta, and then opened up from there.

[Arkham]

This is a pretty good idea. But even people that pass the test would still just use it as a free game. I really want to make beta for the xbox 360 just because i really want to see how an mmo would play for it and i also have some pretty good ideas on how they could do somethings. One idea is powers being activated by using combos. I just really want to help Cryptic make it the best game they can for the 360.

[thatsmystapler]

All this is about is some people trying to cement their place in beta testing. The more people they can try to get eliminated as candidates ahead of time, the better their chances. And quite frankly it's sad. Reading the sense of entitlement on here from some of the people because they beta tested other games or played Champions or whatever is a joke.

How about a test on comic book knowledge? I'll place money that some of you "gamers" couldn't pass that. This is afterall a superhero game and content is as important as bugs.

Everyone brings a different viewpoint to the beta testing experience. That makes everyone a valid tester.

[Deuterium]

Hehe, I'll admit that I've joined a few beta tests in the past just to get to play the game early. :p

[Bad_Luck]

Hehe, I'll admit that I've joined a few beta tests in the past just to get to play the game early. :p

Why would you beta a game if you didn't want to play it ;)

[Arkham]

All this is about is some people trying to cement their place in beta testing. The more people they can try to get eliminated as candidates ahead of time, the better their chances. And quite frankly it's sad. Reading the sense of entitlement on here from some of the people because they beta tested other games or played Champions or whatever is a joke.

How about a test on comic book knowledge? I'll place money that some of you "gamers" couldn't pass that. This is afterall a superhero game and content is as important as bugs.

Everyone brings a different viewpoint to the beta testing experience. That makes everyone a valid tester.

If you want to go on that then it should be knowledge of the champions rpg system not just superheroes, which i would fail, so don't do it cryptic.

[thatsmystapler]

If you want to go on that then it should be knowledge of the champions rpg system not just superheroes, which i would fail, so don't do it cryptic.

No I don't want that. My point was that they are arguing for quizzes that they know they would pass and others wouldn't. And others can turn around and argue for a different type of quiz. The point is, there shouldn't be a quiz to get into beta.

[Slivan]

You failed trick question #1: It is not based on the HERO system. It will only borrow a few terms for stats, but it is a unique gaming mechanic.

:p

What ever you say, But point still stands, if every tester is a champ. p&p player then things will get changed and well end up with a game thats as complex as the p&p game, and im sorry but i dont play games to figure out how much dmg i have done by doing math, its just not fun for me, SO the point is they need a mix of people who know the champ p&p game aswell as those of us who have never even heard of it, so that they know its easy to pick up and understand for every person. not just those of you who play the p&p game

[Cyclone_Jack]

Actually, testing requires all kinds of players. You need technical people, hardcore gamers, geometry jumpers, casual gamers, people familiar with the genre, people familiar with the setting, perople who just 'want a free play', and people who have never played an MMO. Each of these kinds of people have their own unique point of view, and each helps the devs in different ways.

I've been a beta tester for countless games (pc and console), and I've seen all kinds of people get into beta tests. Each one serves a purpose. The tech people are going to look for type-os, imbalances, UI bugs, power bugs, etc. The hardcore games are going to power level as hard as they can to see 'the end game'. They also help test the leveling curve, rewards, mid-game, etc. Geometry jumpers try to break geometry by jumping through odd angled polygons (this is one of my specialites and during CoV beta found a nice bug that crashed the server by doing it). They also look for any sort of graphical error like misaligned textures and geometry, missing models, etc. Those familiar with the game and setting (Champions, HERO, CoX) will be looking for continuity, balance issues, and paying closer attention to content and overall flow of the gameplay and combat. People that just 'want a free play' add more to the load, and usually end up running around doing stupid things that none of the above would ever concieve. They also make for an interesting forums and many have been known to toss out an interesting idea or concept from time to time. Then, those who have never played an MMO can give feed back from the PoV of a n00b. UI, control, tutorial, chat, ease of gameplay, etc.

To make a good game, it takes all kinds.

[Slivan]

Actually, testing requires all kinds of players. You need technical people, hardcore gamers, geometry jumpers, casual gamers, people familiar with the genre, people familiar with the setting, perople who just 'want a free play', and people who have never played an MMO. Each of these kinds of people have their own unique point of view, and each helps the devs in different ways.

I've been a beta tester for countless games (pc and console), and I've seen all kinds of people get into beta tests. Each one serves a purpose. The tech people are going to look for type-os, imbalances, UI bugs, power bugs, etc. The hardcore games are going to power level as hard as they can to see 'the end game'. They also help test the leveling curve, rewards, mid-game, etc. Geometry jumpers try to break geometry by jumping through odd angled polygons (this is one of my specialites and during CoV beta found a nice bug that crashed the server by doing it). They also look for any sort of graphical error like misaligned textures and geometry, missing models, etc. Those familiar with the game and setting (Champions, HERO, CoX) will be looking for continuity, balance issues, and paying closer attention to content and overall flow of the gameplay and combat. People that just 'want a free play' add more to the load, and usually end up running around doing stupid things that none of the above would ever concieve. They also make for an interesting forums and many have been known to toss out an interesting idea or concept from time to time. Then, those who have never played an MMO can give feed back from the PoV of a n00b. UI, control, tutorial, chat, ease of gameplay, etc.

To make a good game, it takes all kinds.

I agree 100% with you. I have tested probably upwards of the high 20's of mmos and other games, so i know what im doing and how to do it well. I also know that it requires many differant types of people to do it right. But some people who play the P&p game think they should be the only ones in it, or atleast thats what i get out of some of the posts here

[Cyclone_Jack]

I agree 100% with you. I have tested probably upwards of the high 20's of mmos and other games, so i know what im doing and how to do it well. I also know that it requires many differant types of people to do it right. But some people who play the P&p game think they should be the only ones in it, or atleast thats what i get out of some of the posts here

Well, seeing that it is using its own combat and leveling mechanics, I feel safe to say, nobody is familiar with how it will play, thus making everyone on these boards, (most) devs excluded, n00bs. ;)

Now that everyone is on equal ground, everyone has an equal opportunity. Yay! :D

[Flying_Carcass]

All this is about is some people trying to cement their place in beta testing. The more people they can try to get eliminated as candidates ahead of time, the better their chances. And quite frankly it's sad. Reading the sense of entitlement on here from some of the people because they beta tested other games or played Champions or whatever is a joke.

I believe I am the most worthy canidate for the postion for Beta tester because I stand for decency, integrity, and rocket launchers. Change is needed, Champions; we need to usher in a new age of digital prosperity, but this can only be achieved if I am elected beta tester. Furthermore, my opponents represent everything that is wrong about everything; they are lazy, inept, incompetant, and cannibalistic. Yes, that's right, my opponents are cannibals. Do you seriously want cannibals beta testing your game for you? I should hope not!

A vote for Carcass is a vote for freedom!

[Buu]

I agree completely with the TC. Too many individuals sign up beta tests for the sole purpose of previewing the product.

Cryptic should get the dedicated testers who truly wish for this game to be ready by Q2 2009.

Best regards,
Buu

[ccav26]

Anyone who's played Champions (the pen and paper game) or City of Heroes (a superhero mmo) would be the prime candidates here, I believe

I desire my Poodle Gun to be an Obvious Accessable Focus with 20 charges. The base power would be a REC drain with a linked END drain. Swatting all those Poodles does make one all tuckered out.

[JeffHCross]

Cryptic should get the dedicated testers who truly wish for this game to be ready by Q2 2009.Like those of us actually employed in software testing as a profession.

Oh, funny, I meet that description. O:-)

I haven't had the chance to read through the 11 pages of this thread, but I suspect I know what most of it says, and I believe I agree with most. We need to weed out those that just want to play the game early, and a questionaire is the best way to go.

That said, a questionaire has a downside. I filled out one of those for a game back a few years ago, and was denied, I believe, based on my last of experience testing. Of course, you can't get experience if you don't get opportunity.

So while a questionaire is by far the best way to go, you also need to accept all levels of applicants. From those that have experience with the H.E.R.O. system (necessary for mechanics testing, but not general gameplay testing), to those that have experience with testing other software (useful because chances are they know where to look for bugs), to people that are detail-oriented ("This mission box says ____ whereas another says ____"), to those that do want to play the game early, because free play testing is one of the best ways to find bugs.

I just hope I'm lucky enough to be a part of it.

[Buu]

Like those of us actually employed in software testing as a profession.

Oh, funny, I meet that description. O:-)

I haven't had the chance to read through the 11 pages of this thread, but I suspect I know what most of it says, and I believe I agree with most. We need to weed out those that just want to play the game early, and a questionaire is the best way to go.

That said, a questionaire has a downside. I filled out one of those for a game back a few years ago, and was denied, I believe, based on my last of experience testing. Of course, you can't get experience if you don't get opportunity.

So while a questionaire is by far the best way to go, you also need to accept all levels of applicants. From those that have experience with the H.E.R.O. system (necessary for mechanics testing, but not general gameplay testing), to those that have experience with testing other software (useful because chances are they know where to look for bugs), to people that are detail-oriented ("This mission box says ____ whereas another says ____"), to those that do want to play the game early, because free play testing is one of the best ways to find bugs.

I just hope I'm lucky enough to be a part of it.

Good points.

I agree that testing applicants should NOT be denied based on specific accomplishments or experiences, such as the H.E.R.O system. Many will not have said experience, however, they might have other knowledge that will aid the beta process.

I am sure many will have the oppertunity to aid Cryptic in testing CO.

Best regards,
Buu

[Bad_Luck]

I agree completely with the TC. Too many individuals sign up beta tests for the sole purpose of previewing the product.

Cryptic should get the dedicated testers who truly wish for this game to be ready by Q2 2009.

Best regards,
Buu

Are you one of those elite few? How would you prove it? Would an entire beta of the same kind of people be a good idea? These are the issues.

[Xuicsus]

It depends. Whether or not you actually want to test the game is based on how much you want to play it.

I went to Comic-Con last year (07). I BEGGED AND BEGGED for a Warhammer Beta Invite, and got nothing. I really really wanted to play that game as I saw it as a reincarnation of Dark Ages of Camelot (the 2nd longest game Ive ever played (2 years) with CoX first (almost 3 years)). I would be playing that non stop if I could, but when I got a beta invite to Dungeon Runners I was like... meh. Nice, but meh.

I did get a beta invite to Gods and Heroes at comic-con. Being a fan of the latin influence, I took to it heavily. Everyday I logged in and as I began to read more and more about it I became more and more obsessed. When they cancelled the game, I almost threw my computer out the window.

So it depends on how intriguing the game is to your players. Everyone signing up within the first week of the game being announced I can assure you all care a GREAT deal about this game. I found out today and called up all my friends hehe. Got to start them on their journey to get here.

[JeffHCross]

Many will not have said experience, however, they might have other knowledge that will aid the beta process.Exactly. At work, all the time, we find bugs that I see as the "new" guy that the more experienced employees overlook. And then they're able to see things that have changed from previous versions that I'm simply not aware of.

[The-Pendragon]

This is an interesting idea....but where to focus?

Having been a playtester for both PC and tabletop games for more years than I want to remember...there are many ways to go with this.

Do you focus on the games utilization of the plethora of background data provided by Herio games over the years..and the ability to immerse you in that world? The CHAMPIONS universe has a Vast quantity of background material that may prove difficult to impliment in a MMO.

Do you focus on the continutity between the table top and online versions so that players of one will feel at home in the other? Several people who I have played CHAMPIONS with are asking if the game will play like the RPG does..for which I have no answer as I do not know myself.

Do you focus on the online interaction of the game and hunt up for unforseen issues that always pop up when you move "outside the box" so to speak? Playtesters can be very notorious and finding something the developer never considered or were aware of. (Most memorable to me was the "Cornwall Bug" in the original DEFENDER OF THE CROWN. That one gave Kellyn some headaches.)

I could go on but I think I have made my point.

[Ohoni]

So, the solution: A 20-50 question questionaire that's in with the application process (that's beside the Dxdiag file and other information needed) that would be compiled of trick questions and such that could determin whether the person would truely test the game to aid in it's production, or use it as a free preview.

I'm in favor of this, but ONLY if the questionaire is also designed to filter out elitist jerks who think they deserve to be in the beta more than other players. Both groups should be excluded.

[Aquila]

I don't think the OP understands the spirit of beta testing.

Really, the hardcore bug-catching is an element of alpha and pre-alpha testing. The point of Beta testing is to expose the game to people who ARE NOT dedicated bug catchers, and see what they can find. It's just the nature of bugs that the ones you miss are the ones you didn't have the mind to look for. The ideal way to treat the game if you are a beta testing is exactly the way you would treat it if you were a paying customer. You are there to simulate the game's launch.

In this way, you will catch bugs that would have otherwise appeared for the first time on launch day, and nobody wants that. When the game launches, you want everything about it to be well rehearsed and expected.

[DensityMan]

I beta'ed on CoV and I agree this is a good idea to weed out the posers.

The "posers" (defined differently by each individual I'm sure) are the first ones to get in on a test system.
- Make up proper answers to get past the guards - check.
- Get in to early beta - check.
- Login and type "First!" - check.

I'm certain the devs will give out some golden tickets to the good little boys and girls, but hiring a team to sift through pages-long applications for beta should (I hope) be a pretty low priority.

I've been in a few as an early choice before, but only for purposes of reviewing content and strategies for guides. Professional bug-hunters are awesome, of course, but the more bodies that are in the game (and thereby covering the widest selection of computers, vid-cards and gaming experience) the better. ;)

Enjoy!

[DensityMan]

...

Really, the hardcore bug-catching is an element of alpha and pre-alpha testing. The point of Beta testing is to expose the game to people who ARE NOT dedicated bug catchers, and see what they can find. It's just the nature of bugs that the ones you miss are the ones you didn't have the mind to look for. The ideal way to treat the game if you are a beta testing is exactly the way you would treat it if you were a paying customer. You are there to simulate the game's launch.

In this way, you will catch bugs that would have otherwise appeared for the first time on launch day, and nobody wants that. When the game launches, you want everything about it to be well rehearsed and expected.

/signed

Exactly!

[General]

A quiz? It sounds good but it's just too easy to get around that to be effective. Anyone can write in what they believe the devs would want to read and in doing so where's the logic in that. The Beta should be done in the "Basic" sense of simulating a game launch so you get the real goods right away. Put the time and energy into the game itself.

[Psilancer]

I'd still love to get in on the Beta. I have no other Beta testing experience, and am more of a "player" than a tester, but would still love it.

[fallof9lives]

I've personally tested my fair share of games, though I will admit a few times it was just to preview. Of all the games I've tested only one had a truly hard working community for bug crushing, and that was Matrix Online. I think that it may have been because of the dedicated fanbase behind the Matrix series that lead to that. While the idea of pre quiz may be good, it might actually be more effective to have people who actually play the Champion pen and paper game test it out. Because the game is suposed to be based on the H.E.R.O. system, these testers would have background knoledge of the game's inner workings allowing them to more effectivley help the developers.

Cryptic bought the rights to the Champions property, and sold back the licensing to Hero Games to continue making Champion PnP RPG rulebooks, supplements, and comic books..........

BUT Hero Games still EXCLUSIVELY owns the rights to the actual Hero System that is used in MULTIPLE GAMES, not just the Champions brand that uses the Hero System. Statements have already been made that the terminology used in the PnP game will be used, but fans of the Hero System specifically are going to be sadly mistaken if they think its a direct translation of the Hero System to a video game.

Long story short: The engine used in the video game is NOT the Hero System, so its inappropriate to be a BETA tester, and try to make side by side comparisons and judge the video game's engine against the PnP's engine because ultimately a BETA tester should be testing the game as a stand alone product, although knowledge of the characters and personalities in the Champions world will certainly be useful to ensure these characters are portrayed accurately.

[glyphdoc]

Actually, testing requires all kinds of players. You need technical people, hardcore gamers, geometry jumpers, casual gamers, people familiar with the genre, people familiar with the setting, perople who just 'want a free play', and people who have never played an MMO. Each of these kinds of people have their own unique point of view, and each helps the devs in different ways.

I've been a beta tester for countless games (pc and console), and I've seen all kinds of people get into beta tests. Each one serves a purpose. The tech people are going to look for type-os, imbalances, UI bugs, power bugs, etc. The hardcore games are going to power level as hard as they can to see 'the end game'. They also help test the leveling curve, rewards, mid-game, etc. Geometry jumpers try to break geometry by jumping through odd angled polygons (this is one of my specialites and during CoV beta found a nice bug that crashed the server by doing it). They also look for any sort of graphical error like misaligned textures and geometry, missing models, etc. Those familiar with the game and setting (Champions, HERO, CoX) will be looking for continuity, balance issues, and paying closer attention to content and overall flow of the gameplay and combat. People that just 'want a free play' add more to the load, and usually end up running around doing stupid things that none of the above would ever concieve. They also make for an interesting forums and many have been known to toss out an interesting idea or concept from time to time. Then, those who have never played an MMO can give feed back from the PoV of a n00b. UI, control, tutorial, chat, ease of gameplay, etc.

To make a good game, it takes all kinds.

I also agree. Somtimes all a person has to offer is server load but at least that's somehting.

[Kittykatboy]

i dont agree with all of what you said... yea it is based on the H.E.R.O system but they also need to know how well people who have never even heard of it can comprehend what the system is and how it works. myself being one of them.

/agree

I think the test is a good idea as well but I agree with the above statement.. not only do you have to test to make sure the game is working, but you also have to test the appeal of the game.

I don't think beta testing should be limited to any specific group of people.. there is too much to be learned from fresh eyes.

I mean, everyone might not know what it means to play the true numbers of the powers and effects, but certainly people with fresh eyes and little intelligence can point out that something isn't working right, or some powers seem to be unbalanced in reference to others at the same lvl...

and who knows Seasoned players might over look minor details because they are so determined to find gliches... like noticing some animations don't make sense, that certain parts of the game are confusing , or some systems need to be a little less complex.

Look at EQ for example.. it was hard enough figuring it out when it was first launched.. I'd hate to be a Noob coming into the game now... I haven't played it in probably just less than a year, and I'd be at a loss going back to it, but CoX from the get go is extremely easy to figure out, and remains so today... as is WoW, and look at the player draw it's accomplished.


just my 2cents

[Whispen]

The screening questions idea is very weak. It completely fails to address the issue. You want beta testers to be testing.

How do you know if they're testing?

The handling of the beta-keys should be such that if someone is logging in game time and isn't making some reasonable quota of feedbacks, bug reports, etc. that they lose their beta-key.

Knowledge doesn't equate to action. Knowing what to do and doing it are completely different (see quitting smoking for details).

Beta Testers need to be testing to keep their keys. Monitor that with server side statistics and you'll figure out who's using the beta to play and not to test.

[Slivan]

Its funny all you voting for the 20 question crud, Are all saying we need "elite" bug catchers/ people who are serious about catching bugs. And everyone who said that assume they are perfect for the job.
Ill tell you what though im not perfect for the job but because i know im not some "super leet bug catching im the best at everything you suck" type of person, i do what i can and im sure everyone who does or will get into the beta w hen the time comes will put forth that much effort into doing so aswell. So to all you who think there a super leet bug catcher well i think you are the ones who should be excluded from the beta.

But thats just my honest opinion

[SynKiller]

Personally I think this is a dumb idea. Do I wanna be in the beta test? absolutely. Why? Because I want to try the game out and want to see if its worth my time and money. Have I ever played champions PnP before? Yes but it was like in the late 80s and I forgot mostly every thing. To me, the TC and those that agree just want to weed out those that have or want to beta test to either play it or want to test drive it. In that case why arent you beta testing games for a living? Exactly. SO spare me with the "we should quiz those who are less fortunate in knowing the Champions universe." bit. I would love to get in to the beta and I have been in every NCsoft beta (as well as other Big MMos) but I never lost sleep over not getting in one due to the fact II cant tell you who the Lich king is in Wow or How powerful Mandelorian Ion cannons are in SWG....

I think the quiz is a good idea, but not totally necessary... I've played CoX for two years and have loved every moment of it. I wish I'd started playing it when it first came out, but unfortunately I didn't have the money... But I did frequent the CoX forums, and read many guides, reviews, and planned out character builds before I even owned it. I'm also a huge HERO fan. I'd love to get a taste of what this game is like in beta- both as a preview for myself, as well as to actually test it and help make it better as a whole. :D

[Aquila]

You guys are just so, missing the point here. Bug catchers who are out looking for ways to break the game are going to play differently than people who are playing for amusement. The point of Beta is to simulate the game's release, and see how the game feels to the average player.

You just want to increase your chances of getting into Beta by limiting it to people you consider "worthy" (AKA yourself).

[The-Pendragon]

You guys are just so, missing the point here. Bug catchers who are out looking for ways to break the game are going to play differently than people who are playing for amusement. The point of Beta is to simulate the game's release, and see how the game feels to the average player.



I think Aquila has made a point here. The point of Beta is not to get an early look at the game. It is to discover any potential probs the Devs may have missed and help them correct them prior to the game going "live"

You just want to increase your chances of getting into Beta by limiting it to people you consider "worthy" (AKA yourself).

I think this is also a point being made. A Quiz may sound elitist to some...and may come accross as people attempting to "cement" a position for themselves...and it may be just that...but it also may be a way to weed out the "posers" as well.

Having been a beta tester for several years...I can say that though it sounds great to get in on the new game early...if you are in for only that then you are a detriment rather than a benefit. If you are only wanting in beta for the chance to play the game early...you are not helping the game nor the devs, Think about that carefully before you start clamouring for a beta invite.

[Bad_Luck]

I think Aquila has made a point here. The point of Beta is not to get an early look at the game. It is to discover any potential probs the Devs may have missed and help them correct them prior to the game going "live"