Complex powers

[Markus]

Swinglines
water powers.
Phasing
Shapeshifting
wallcrawling
size manipulation


Will any of these complex powers be available?

Can anyone think of more for the wish list?

[Ex-Niner]

Dwarves. Srsly.

[Static]

I don't entirely understand how the power system will work, but since we have freedom with choosing pretty much whatever power we want, what if we could mesh certain powers with others ie. you unleash a torrent of flame from you and this deals pbaoe damage, whilst igniting you sword/hammer/axe/whatever, or the same can be said for ice etc.

[GT01]

Markus, some of those powers mentioned at top might not work. But the others seem fine enough.

Swinglines= Up in the air (no pun intended). Can't really be used as a combat power, other than maybe some kinda distanced grapple. If in there, would probably be a VERY specialized traveling ability (probably usable only in city-type areas).

Water Powers= No forseeable issue. They're just really complex to render, though this game probably renders water rather simply yet elegantly. Water powers would have a lot of knockback to 'em, I'd say that much. Maybe even a penalty to defense against electricity.

Shapeshifting= Tricky. For this, they'd need to create some kinda list to draw on, and an expansive one, to keep everyone happy.

Wallcrawling= Would probably get changed to "climbing" to avoid copyright infringement, haha. Climbing might be likely, but when I look at the pictures I just don't get the vibe that it might be in there.

Size manipulation=Definetely probable. Just need to somehow script in how to limit the power indoors, as people who grow are especially more usefull in big wide open spaces.

Again, I'm no dev, so I could be COMPLETELY wrong about any one of these, but these are just my humble opinions and conjectures.


.... don't really understand that "dwarves" comment left there..... Are dwarves supposed to be a superpower class unto themselves? lol

[Rhyder]

As for this game I am honestly not sure what kind of powers they will be adding with this kind of combat system ect, though I do find most of it really possible for example water and size powers. I guess we'll have to wait and see what the devs have planned for us :)

[Yin]

I think some people just need to understand that not every power can be implemented into a game like this, and if they are, it's not going to meet everyone's expectations. Shape Shifting for example is a very broad power. What can you shape shift into? Are you a Mr. Fantastic/Elasti-Girl/Plastic-Man type hero who can render him/herself into a complete malleable state and stretch, bend, twist, turn into a ball, a vase, etc? Or are you more of the Morph/Mystique Shape Shifter and can take on the forms of other living organisms?

If it's more so the Mr. Fantastic-type, I'd imagine it'd being more of a melee set in which a "punch" or "kick" is animated to where that body part stretches out, or you can morph your hand/fist into a hammer, mallet, etc. If it's more of a Mystique thing, I can see them going two ways with this: A.) Having a set list of animals you can morph in to (start off with something small: A Dog, and have 3-5 powers under that: Bite (damage), Bark, etc), and then at the last power have you turn into something like an Elephant or Tiger, and have 3-5 powers under that morph. B.) You can craft/collect various whatever to "learn" new morphs throughout the game (Chinese dragons, taking on the form of a signature hero or something).

Size Manipulation can only be pushed so far. You can shrink to the size of someone's pinky finger, or be 19 feet tall, but what do you do after that? How much of a set can you get out of something like that? They work in comics because they're comics. This is a game. They have to make sense and be fun, otherwise, they get scrapped. That's why characters like Archangel don't make it into video games. How can you make a character, whose main power is flight, fun? Why waste that time to figure it out when you can move on to another power that people will actually enjoy?

Just some food for thought.

[Rhyder]

I think some people just need to understand that not every power can be implemented into a game like this, and if they are, it's not going to meet everyone's expectations. Shape Shifting for example is a very broad power. What can you shape shift into? Are you a Mr. Fantastic/Elasti-Girl/Plastic-Man type hero who can render him/herself into a complete malleable state and stretch, bend, twist, turn into a ball, a vase, etc? Or are you more of the Morph/Mystique Shape Shifter and can take on the forms of other living organisms?

If it's moreso the Mr. Fantastic-type, I'd imagine it'd being more of a melee set in which a "punch" or "kick" is animated to where that body part stretches out, or you can morph your hand/fist into a hammer, mallet, etc. If it's more of a Mystique thing, I can see them going two ways with this: A.) Having a set list of animals you can morph in to (start off with something small: A Dog, and have 3-5 powers under that: Bite (damage), Bark, etc), and then at the last power have you turn into something like an Elephant or Tiger or something like that. B.) You can craft/collect various whatever to "learn" new morphs throughout the game (Chinese dragons, taking on the form of a signature hero or something).

Size Manipulation can only be pushed so far. You can shrink to the size of someone's pinky finger, or be 19 feet tall. But what do you do after that? How much of a set can you get out of something like that? They work in comics because they're comics. This is a game. They have to make sense and be fun, otherwise, they get scrapped. That's why characters like Archangel don't make it into video games. How can you make a character, whose main power is flight, fun? Why waste that time to figure it out when you can move on to another power that people will actually enjoy?

Just some food for thought.


Very well put Yin.

Yes its true some of these ideas seem almost impossible to be done in MMO's although there are ways to play around with them and sort of I guess "make it better or dim it down" so it's possible to be done. IMO shape-shifting would be really neat in a game like this but I do see the problems that can occur in a game like this.

As for size-manipulation. A lot of games have something "in a way" like this. Like in World of Warcraft they had some potion that you drink that makes you smaller or some crafted item. This didn't do anything for you besides make you small lol :). What it did was make you barely see-able in pvp thats about it. But what you can do for size-manipulation like they did in WoW is have it set to items that will make you shrink for example

-Special Power only obtainable by a quest
-Crafted Item
-Dropped Item off a Monster(I can see some problems of people farming this) :(

Yet you will still have your main powers you picked I can't see this being a "Main Power" or possible "Secondary" because theres only so much you can do with this.

Those are only some key examples of how I think size-manipulation should be in a game like this.

[Ex-Niner]

The probelm with these super specific powers is that for every one they implement, they have to create resistances and defence for each. If there is any enhancement or point type system, we'd be spread very thin to cover all the angles.

[LivingHellfire]

Swinglines
water powers.
Phasing
Shapeshifting
wallcrawling
size manipulation


Will any of these complex powers be available?

Can anyone think of more for the wish list?

I doubt wallcrawling and webslinging (swingilnes) will be available... there are just too few heroes that do that kind of thing, they'd be wide open again.

I wish! But... I doubt it.

[LivingHellfire]

Dwarves. Srsly.

ololz i k1ll3d kh3lb1n bl4ck5taff!

[ScrewySqrl]

I doubt wallcrawling and webslinging (swingilnes) will be available... there are just too few heroes that do that kind of thing, they'd be wide open again.

I wish! But... I doubt it.

well, HERO has them: 'webslinging' is called Swinging (and is also useful for swashbuckling, Tarzan, and the like)

Wall crawling is called Clinging,

along with Growth and Shrinking, there are several types of shapechange:

Mr. Fantastic/Plastic Man style is called 'Stretching' Stretching is also how things like a reacher arm, a whip, or a cartoon mallet with a boxing glove that snaps out of it can be simulated.

Mystique's style of shapeshifting is the 'Shapeshift' Power.. You change shape, but don't gain any abilities of the changed form (you could 'shapeshift', in theory, into a Hawk, but you couldn't FLY.)

Beast Boy or Ben 10 basically use the power 'Multiform' where each form has its own character sheet.


I suspect clinging, stretching, and swinging will be in if at all possible, shapeshift will have limited forms

[TheMystic]

I had an idea for a travel power in CoH that I think could work easily. Essentially, it's like Link's hookshot in Twilight Princess. You point to a target, shoot and then you are pulled to that spot. They could also include the reeling ability to lower and raise yourself on the line.

[Badger]

Very well put Yin.

Those are only some key examples of how I think size-manipulation should be in a game like this.

Well, looking at the powers in the Hero system, Shrinking could give you a huge defense bonus, reduce your aggro range (against NPCs) and allowing you to do the "Growth Punch" maneuver (bonus to damage ), while Growth would give you more strength, toughness and a bigger stride. Basically, it could work as a package deal...

[Markus]

.... don't really understand that "dwarves" comment left there..... Are dwarves supposed to be a superpower class unto themselves? lol

Just a friend saying hello.

[Cyjack]

Climbing and swingline travel have been pretty high up on everyones wish list for years in CoX. I'd be surprised if they weren't high up on Cryptics wish list as well...whether or not they end up pulling it off.

When you think about it, swingline travel is pretty much just superjump with a different physics arc. Theres no need to explicity trace where the lines are attaching to (nor do I think they could in a MMO). Climbing is trickier.

Here's to hoping.

[Markus]

The problem with these super specific powers is that for every one they implement, they have to create resistances and defense for each. If there is any enhancement or point type system, we'd be spread very thin to cover all the angles.

To few?

Like nine bat-man people
at least 3 green arrow people
spiderman and all his copycat villains
At least one X-mna,
2 Avengers


Sorry there are plenty of people who use grapling type travel powers and climb the sides of buildings.


Besides why would anyone play this game if all the powers were just slightly different versions of CoH?

The reason for wanting to play this game (at least for me) is that Champions RPG is so open ended, and has the potential for any power to be used.

If they limit it, I will probably just stick with CoH.

[Stormsun]

I can say with almost total certainty that traditional phasing won't be included. Aside from the logistical issues with a power like that (anyone remember how well the 'you can dig your way just about anywhere' schtick worked for Red Faction?) it would play merry hell with the graphic engine and make the workload of the zone architects double at least. After all, if you can run through a building they're pretty much forced to model the inside of it.

If I were going to attempt to implement something like that in a game I was designing, I'd set it up as a conditional teleport. You toggle the power on and when you run into a solid structure, such as a wall, it uses a 'passing through' type animation and then 'ports you to the appropriate point on the far side. It wouldn't work on floors or ceilings unless there was an existing open space to move to, and would avoid a number of the other potential issues. (no need to model the 'inside' of something) It could cause some balance problems, like bypassing certain areas in missions, but I can't imagine it would be too hard to correct for assuming the engine allows for this type of portal use.

Phasing could also make for an interesting defensive power, potentially providing near-total resistance to physical damage and being almost useless against energy blasts (the charged particles disrupt your biomorphic field) and mental attacks (you're still thinking, even if they can't touch you).

I'd probably limit shapeshifting to the ability to mimic the form of a targeted enemy mob, probably as a form of stealth power. Much simpler to code than trying to provide a massive library of forms. Mr. Fantastic-style stretch attacks are viable, but given the level of promised customizability, I don't know if animating them would be possible on a practical level.

For some of the same reasons, climbing powers are likely to be hard to get working right, and if grapple swinging is in the game at all it's likely to be similar to the majority of Spiderman video games where you're essentially swinging from 'something above you, offscreeen' and not a particular building.

[thepatriot]

Swinglines
water powers.
Phasing
Shapeshifting
wallcrawling
size manipulation


Will any of these complex powers be available?

Can anyone think of more for the wish list?

Reasons these were not done in CoH:
Swinglines: They didn't feel they could do swinglines well enough to not look wierd, just like they wanted to get capes right before adding them. Since then the Spiderman games came out with pretty good swinging in it but there are too many maps in the CoX that would not be condusive to swinglines.
Water Powers: No water environment
Phasing: Is in CoH unless you mean through walls. This would require that all maps be constructed in a certain manner so that rooms are actually next to each other and this could lead to odd camera clipping and seeing through walls which is why it wasn't done in CoH.
Shapshifting: Sort of in CoH with Kheldians but if you mean say animal shapes then this would be a lot of art assests for one power and then you have to decide if the shapes give you powers which would mean a lot of balancing would be required. The cost of investment to return was deemed too high in CoH
Wallcrawling (In Championes this would be called Clinging): Was not considerd usefull enough to be it's own power set.
Size Manipukation: The concern was if you grew to great size how would you fit through the door. All mission maps at the time CoH launched were interior and growth was considered a bad idea for interior maps. As for shrinking it simply didn't bring value to the game.

[Eldridge]

A really good power would be to include Player Clones:

Essentially, you would summon a controllable Pet that looks like your Hero, with limited versions of your own powers. As you go up in power, perhaps you could summon more clones?

Other alternatives would be a "One Time Punch Clone", essentially a distance attack that spawns a duplicate of you, socks a badguy in the jaw, and then poofs away.

Other uses for clones could be as decoys, bait for traps, and if the devs felt really ambitious, "errand running." IE: You send a clone to press a button on the other side of the map to unlock a timed cell door that you're standing next to.

Another good ability would be Combat Teleportation:

In CoX, teleportation was a relatively weak travel power, and it's combat capabilities were extremely lacking. A teleporter should be able to target an enemy and zap straight to it, delivering a punch or other attack, or put distance between themselves and a foe.

A good example would be a "Sudden Sneak Attack", in which the power teleports you directly behind a targeted enemy and delivers a pre-determined attack.

In addition, teleportation as a travel power should not be limited to line of sight. Ultimately, a teleporter should be permitted to create "Recall Points" to zap back to in certain situations. Perhaps every Teleporter would have Line of Sight Teleport, and a limited number of Recall Teleports. As the power develops, more Recall Points could be added, allowing you to zap directly into new zones... Perhaps even to the Moon!

Food for thought.

-ELDRIDGE

[Thanoslug]

I would love to see the Multiform power implemented in a game. World of Warcraft comes close to the sort of things that would be necessary. For example, a warrior in WoW can assume different combat stances and each stance has it's own hotbar for abilities. So, you shift into a multiform and bam, there are the buttons for your alternate power set like the new hotbar that WoW uses for warrior stances. As for the forms themselves, you could use the character creation system to create the physical forms for each multiform. It seems to me that the mechanics for the power already exist out there in the MMO world.

Here's hoping.

[Ex-Niner]

ololz i k1ll3d kh3lb1n bl4ck5taff!
I so did.......