Why exactly is a bugged Invulnerability allowed to exist?

XFracture · 09-26-2009, 03:05 PM

Seriously. Every other passive scales with its intended stat. Its discovered that Invulnerability scales with whatever stat you want it to and instead of pushing this fix you decide to leave it because, and I quote, "...it feels too nerfy"?

Ok so when do I get to start using Dex/Ego as my scaling stat with fire/form? Since you don't think its important enough to institute a fix you already devised can you break the other Passives in the mean time?

At least until you figure out when it will be important enough for Passives to scale with their proper stats.

Vid-szhite · 09-26-2009, 03:53 PM

What. 10char.

Agathorn · 09-26-2009, 04:48 PM

Oh come off it already.

Obviously theyre going to fix it, when they can do it right. They most likely retracted all those fixed, FOR NOW, because the result of fixing them is a drastic nerf. At a guess, i'd say theyre holding off, again FOR NOW, until they can fix them AND re-balance them a bit instead of it just being a nerf.

AtomicDynamo · 09-26-2009, 05:13 PM

And in my experience and testing the scaling from other superstat then con and str just does not happen...

I was strength/Intel my invuln was 24% and 60 soak

I changed to con and intell and now my retings are 35% and 46 soak it appears to me that its working exactly like it should

Kit · 09-26-2009, 05:22 PM

There were other powers listed as "bugged", throwing items for example. Why not call for a buff to all powers? Some people just love the nerf bat.

Murbella · 09-26-2009, 07:39 PM

They can't even fix the auction house after all this time after they broke it in a patch, what can you expect?

Fervor · 09-26-2009, 09:14 PM

The patch note clearly states that the base stats are CON and STR.

The problem is that Invulnerabiilty also scales with your superstats as well. So it gets a bonus on top of the base scaling provided by CON and STR.

So if you want to see the impact of this bug, get invulnerability and fiddle with your superstats (not CON or STR). If the mitigation numbers from invulnerability change, then it's bugged. CON and STR should be the only stats that impact invulnerability.

I assume the fix isn't going live because this 'double dipping' problem is more widespread than expected. So fixing it might lead to a major overall nerf of the entire playerbase.

Llorean · 09-26-2009, 09:50 PM

Well if it was actually double-dipping then it's currently balanced against content with the boosts from the super stats. Which means when they remove those boosts it gets weaker (while the content stays the same).

So if invuln wasn't actually overpowered (and few people claim it is currently) when the superstat bonus gets removed it needs to be rebalanced so still give approximately similar tankin effectiveness.

Make no mistake, the fix is almost certainly going to hurt some users of the power, but my guess is that if they do it "right" it's going to average out to the same effectiveness (meaning less effective for some, but more effective for others).

That's probably how it is with all the "too nerfy" ones - they're at least *close* to balanced right now despite the bug, and fixing the bug drastically alters their power levels, so they need to factor in changes to the power to happen at the same time.

GammaBreaker · 09-27-2009, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agathorn

Oh come off it already.

Obviously theyre going to fix it, when they can do it right. They most likely retracted all those fixed, FOR NOW, because the result of fixing them is a drastic nerf. At a guess, i'd say theyre holding off, again FOR NOW, until they can fix them AND re-balance them a bit instead of it just being a nerf.

Sounds about right. Have to do both at the same time. Fix without readjusting and people are going to scream bloody murder.

Luclin999 · 09-27-2009, 08:41 AM

While it doesn't matter to me personally how they may change this (my characters which use Invulnerability both have STR and CON as Superstats), perhaps they simply realized that not every "tank" in this game is a Might based character?

I have seen several "tanks" that are based on Sorcery, Fire, Electricity, Munitions and even one "tank" build that relied on Healing people to generate threat.

Having Invulnerability scale off of only STR and CON effectively cripples it's use for anyone trying to tank with it that isn't essentially a Might character.

I am hoping that their decision to leave it alone for now indicates that the Devs realized this and are planning to simply change the description to read something like..

"Your Primary Superstat increases the amount of damage mitigated while an additional amount is reduced after that initial reduction. That additional amount reduced scales with your secondary Superstat."

That allows it to continue to be useful as a "tanking" power for all of the characters who have created these rather unorthodox tanks.

09-26-2009, 03:05 PM	#1
XFracture Champion Join Date: May 2009	Why exactly is a bugged Invulnerability allowed to exist? Seriously. Every other passive scales with its intended stat. Its discovered that Invulnerability scales with whatever stat you want it to and instead of pushing this fix you decide to leave it because, and I quote, "...it feels too nerfy"? Ok so when do I get to start using Dex/Ego as my scaling stat with fire/form? Since you don't think its important enough to institute a fix you already devised can you break the other Passives in the mean time? At least until you figure out when it will be important enough for Passives to scale with their proper stats. __________________ . Subscription ends on 1/27. Best of luck to everyone, even the ones on /ignore. .

09-26-2009, 04:48 PM	#3
Agathorn Champion Join Date: Jun 2009	Oh come off it already. Obviously theyre going to fix it, when they can do it right. They most likely retracted all those fixed, FOR NOW, because the result of fixing them is a drastic nerf. At a guess, i'd say theyre holding off, again FOR NOW, until they can fix them AND re-balance them a bit instead of it just being a nerf. __________________ Now you can follow CO_PTS_BUGS on Twitter for a quick and easy way to keep abreast of the current PTS build's bugs.

09-26-2009, 05:13 PM	#4
AtomicDynamo Champion Join Date: Apr 2009	And in my experience and testing the scaling from other superstat then con and str just does not happen... I was strength/Intel my invuln was 24% and 60 soak I changed to con and intell and now my retings are 35% and 46 soak it appears to me that its working exactly like it should __________________ Atomic Dynamo - Ill/Rad COH triumph (retired)

09-26-2009, 05:22 PM	#5
Kit Hero Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: East Coast	There were other powers listed as "bugged", throwing items for example. Why not call for a buff to all powers? Some people just love the nerf bat. __________________ All I want is a warm bed, a kind word, and unlimited power.

09-26-2009, 07:39 PM	#6
Murbella Champion Join Date: Aug 2009	They can't even fix the auction house after all this time after they broke it in a patch, what can you expect? __________________ -"Cryptic used the lessons learned from Anarchy Online to make something truly amazing, Pet AI even worse than the formerly worst ever made."

09-26-2009, 03:53 PM	#2
Vid-szhite Hero Join Date: Sep 2009	What. 10char.

09-26-2009, 09:14 PM	#7
Fervor Champion Join Date: Apr 2009	The patch note clearly states that the base stats are CON and STR. The problem is that Invulnerabiilty also scales with your superstats as well. So it gets a bonus on top of the base scaling provided by CON and STR. So if you want to see the impact of this bug, get invulnerability and fiddle with your superstats (not CON or STR). If the mitigation numbers from invulnerability change, then it's bugged. CON and STR should be the only stats that impact invulnerability. I assume the fix isn't going live because this 'double dipping' problem is more widespread than expected. So fixing it might lead to a major overall nerf of the entire playerbase.

09-26-2009, 09:50 PM	#8
Llorean Champion Join Date: Sep 2009	Well if it was actually double-dipping then it's currently balanced against content with the boosts from the super stats. Which means when they remove those boosts it gets weaker (while the content stays the same). So if invuln wasn't actually overpowered (and few people claim it is currently) when the superstat bonus gets removed it needs to be rebalanced so still give approximately similar tankin effectiveness. Make no mistake, the fix is almost certainly going to hurt some users of the power, but my guess is that if they do it "right" it's going to average out to the same effectiveness (meaning less effective for some, but more effective for others). That's probably how it is with all the "too nerfy" ones - they're at least close to balanced right now despite the bug, and fixing the bug drastically alters their power levels, so they need to factor in changes to the power to happen at the same time.

09-27-2009, 08:41 AM	#10
Luclin999 Vanguard Join Date: May 2009	While it doesn't matter to me personally how they may change this (my characters which use Invulnerability both have STR and CON as Superstats), perhaps they simply realized that not every "tank" in this game is a Might based character? I have seen several "tanks" that are based on Sorcery, Fire, Electricity, Munitions and even one "tank" build that relied on Healing people to generate threat. Having Invulnerability scale off of only STR and CON effectively cripples it's use for anyone trying to tank with it that isn't essentially a Might character. I am hoping that their decision to leave it alone for now indicates that the Devs realized this and are planning to simply change the description to read something like.. "Your Primary Superstat increases the amount of damage mitigated while an additional amount is reduced after that initial reduction. That additional amount reduced scales with your secondary Superstat." That allows it to continue to be useful as a "tanking" power for all of the characters who have created these rather unorthodox tanks.