Ice Build Mistake

[Guillox]

you can have ur own opinion. i have mine. i take out of the power house BOTH spects of ice toon. 1 with REC as SS and 1 without.

all go smother with REC as SS. u can start with a full ice breath the fight. recover energy very fast with 3 or 4 at most energy builds phew phew and then shater all the way

for PVE i know is the best i get.

for pvp well full ice toon inst a good spec. have to mix max some other powers so don't count at all on this discusion.

[snowchrome]

get accelerated metobolism

[XFracture]

I do not doubt the novelty of Rec/End on trash mobs. In fact I agreed with you. But that's all it is, a novelty on trash mobs.

And in arena? Anyone who thinks their non regen slotted End/Rec build can compete with my End/Dex + Ego offensive spec is more than invited to contact me in game.

[Guillox]

Originally Posted by XFracture

I do not doubt the novelty of Rec/End on trash mobs. In fact I agreed with you. But that's all it is, a novelty on trash mobs.

And in arena? Anyone who thinks their non regen slotted End/Rec build can compete with my End/Dex + Ego offensive spec is more than invited to contact me in game.

bleh ur just arguin with me and a little trolling and going away from the OP of this thread.

[XFracture]

Originally Posted by Guillox

bleh ur just arguin with me and a little trolling and going away from the OP of this thread.

Trolling by definition is when a poster is trying to cause gruff and derail a thread. I do BELIEVE this thread is about a player who changed his SS OUT of recovery and the discussion you and I are having is about exactly that point.

Don't come at me with claims of Trolling when we're both staying on topic and I haven't been no more than politely disagreeable with you . That's just you trying to defend your poorly defensible position against actual math and reasoning. If you can't defend your point of view then clearly you shouldn't have opened this conversation to begin with and maybe next time you'll think before leaping.

But don't sully your name with false claims of "Troll! Troll!" Just because I walked your reasoning into a corner it can't get out of. That's just childish and quite frankly I expected better from you. Since you're clearly incapable of having this discussion like a mature adult I bid you good day.

/ignore

[Jengu]

I tried a few solutions:

1. sticking with Dex / End super stats and gearing for Rec (losing Dex / Ego)
2. choosing End / Rec super stats and gearing for Dex
3. choosing Dex / End super stats again and gearing for Rec but with more balanced with the other stats - with this one I tried the Force Shield / Force Sheathe combo

Option 1 worked but the damage wasn't great and was a bit disappointing after the high damage (but flawed) build I'd just tried.

Option 2 was just tested in the powerhouse but it didn't seem to give a good balance between damage and energy. This might be because I didn't have the gear to gear up Dex without it being a super stat.

Option 3 can't be tested in the powerhouse because it relies on doing damage and receiving damage to get the energy but I took a gamble and it turned out to be fun. Not any more fragile than my original Dex / Rec build with Lightning Reflexes.

J

[XFracture]

I was taking for granted that this was a concept build and so did not recommend force shield. You can chose to believe me or not. Its your choice but if you're pondering taking force shield with Endurance then there is absolutely no reason to involve Rec in your build or gear AT ALL.

That's just over kill. You're End bar will fill up within 2 seconds of the fight starting with sheathe up. Almost instantaneously if there are multiple mobs.

[Jengu]

Originally Posted by Jengu

If it requires 20 attacks to reach full energy then increasing recovery will reduce that number but increasing endurance won't.

Originally Posted by XFracture

Yes, mathematically, Endurance will. And not only will it but it will bring MORE than Recovery alone.

On my one toon I have 167 Endurance and 17 recovery(due to gear, not by choice). Nothing too great. With a 10% energy builder I'm pulling in 29 energy per shot. 29 Energy with a pool of 267 (rounded up to 27 energy per shot). The extra 2 points I'm assuming are coming from recovery.

On my testing toon, I have 105 Recovery (due to my lack of recovery gear stored away... that's how much I like this SS) and a base 10 Endurance. I net in 18 energy per attack with a paltry endurance pool of 110. Staying on THIS course I would have to have in the neighborhood of 220+ recovery to match the endurance builder who's sitting only at 167 Endurance. And considering SS damage contrib hard caps at 212 I'd actually be WASTING points in a capped SS just to hit the endurance generation of a Stat that's 33 points it's junior.

I don't know why you are contradicting me but providing tests that back up what I said.

Your 1st test - high endurance and low recovery - a little over 10% energy gain per hit.
Your 2nd test - high recovery and low endurance - a little over 15% energy gain per hit.

So with those two tests it's evident that high endurance doesn't decrease the number of energy builder attacks required to fill a bar but high recovery will. Which is exactly what I said in the part of my post that you quoted.

Note that I'm not denying that your tests don't show that Endurance is better than Recovery - they plainly do. I'm just saying that they don't contradict the part of my post that you quoted.

Originally Posted by Jengu

If it requires 20 attacks to reach full energy...

Originally Posted by XFracture

And this is just plain ole mis-information. No Endurance builder in THIS GAME takes 20 attacks to build full endurance. At most, AT MOST, with an 8% end builder it will take you 12 attacks. AT MOST. And at a .35 attack rate you're looking at 4.35 seconds to reach full energy (that's including the .5 initial cast cost).

Shame on you.

It wasn't mis-information. It was an example. Based on the information in the other post, I said that IF an energy builder took 20 attacks to fill a bar then increasing recovery would reduce that number and increasing endurance wouldn't. This is true according to the post I linked and according to your own tests

I didn't say that any energy builder took 20 attacks to fill a bar. The number 20 wasn't even the important part of the statement - the number of attacks being constant was.

J

[Jengu]

Originally Posted by XFracture

I was taking for granted that this was a concept build and so did not recommend force shield. You can chose to believe me or not. Its your choice but if you're pondering taking force shield with Endurance then there is absolutely no reason to involve Rec in your build or gear AT ALL.

That's just over kill. You're End bar will fill up within 2 seconds of the fight starting with sheathe up. Almost instantaneously if there are multiple mobs.

Yes, after playing for a while I see that I mostly have energy spilling out of my ears. I'll try swapping some Endurance for Dex and see how that goes.

J

[XFracture]

Originally Posted by Jengu

I'm just saying that they don't contradict the part of my post that you quoted.

Ah, but that's the thing, they do. You just have to look outside the box. Now, granted, you are correct. A 15% end builder will FILL an energy bar faster then a 10% one. That's the tricky part. Will FILL an ENERGY BAR faster. It will not GENERATE ENERGY faster though. For instance, the previous numbers.

We'll use the Recovery toons energy pool since it's the common denominator.

110 (Energy pool) / 18 (15% end builder) = 6.1 seconds
110 (Energy pool) / 29 (10% end builder for a 267 energy pool) = 3.8 seconds.

Assuming we're talking about one attack per second, which isn't the reality of how this works but for simplicities sake we are.

I just built up just as much energy as a Rec spec'd toon FASTER then they did despite them having a higher generation percentage. Over time that just grows exponentially. Which, and this isn't directed to you actually I'm just saying in general, is why I'm SO confused as to people being so enamored with Rec on it's own? Rec + End, yes ok I can see that. It's a WASTE... but I can see that. But Rec + any other SS WITHOUT having Regen slotted is just not a mathematically sound decision.

The trick to the Rec vs. End argument is basing the argument on percentages. Which is a flawed line of reasoning. You have to actually look at the numbers. While yes rec wins percentage wise, if you actually look at the numbers End is the winner and by no small margin either. We're talking about nearly doubling your energy generation and on top of that increasing your available pool of energy for feeding those really really big hitting attacks.

But I do apologize for the second part. It seemed as if you were trying to pull something. = ) My bad, sincerest apologies.